Pay-pal Narc?

[bumsuckfun]

First off, I've been a BombingScience customer for about 3 years, which has included buying buying online many, many times, as well as buying in person at both Breakdown and Revolution Records (both Halifax stores that have been BS affiliates) and SubV in Montreal.

Second off, it has come to my awareness that Pay-Pal is essentially a narc unit, willing to report any suspicious behavior to the authorities, regardless of whether or not anything illegal has taken place and regardless of whether the products being used are illegal or not. Basically, if it doesn't fit PayPal's very conservative George Bushish political views then they might narc you out if it comes to their attention.

This never really concerned me, but I started hearing reports of people (and shops) getting fucked over again and again on the internet, most of which for buying things such as pipes, bongs and psychoactive (but legal) herbs (even when they are being sold as 'inscense' and strictly labeled 'not for human consumption').

My real concern is that if Paypal is willing to narc out people selling legal herbs, even when they go the further step to make it seem 'politically correct' by labelling them as incense and not for human consumption, than what's keeping Paypal from narcing out people selling (and buying) graffiti products. Sure enough, graffiti products are not illegal, nor is the sale of them, but they definately don't fit into the political views that paypal and it's acceptable use policy seem to put into place. Again to look at the herbs, which are not illegal to possess or sell, or even use in an intoxicating matter, there is reports of paypal narcing people out and in general screwing people over. Graffiti products, similar to herbs are not illegal to possess or sell, however they go one step more 'offensive' (in Paypal's eyes) as the use of the products could very well be for illegal purposes (although they could also be used legally, but the fact of the matter is that the illegal use is a very real option, in comparison to ethnobotanicals which are not illegal in any way/shape/form or use).

My concerns further into my own legal issues, in which something that was said by local police authorities gives me the impression that they know which graffiti products I have purchased from this site using my PayPal account? Am I just being paranoid and mis-interpreted what was being said? Perhaps I heard wrong? Or perhaps PayPal narced on me? Again, what was said by law enforcement wasn't a straight up "we know what you bought using pay-pal" but I was left with that impression. It is also worth mentioning that I have not been arrested nor has their been any warrants that would allow local law enforcement to view my information, so for them to even have the slightest hint at what I do and buy online is very, very, very scary, especially in a country like Canada where the police have very limited rights when it comes to searching up information on people they deem suspicious.

Anyway, I just wanted to state how I felt and perhaps I'm just being paranoid, but thought it was a concern worth sharing at the very least, as it could possibly affect not only customers of BombingScience, but BombingScience's Shop itself. Just my 2 cents...

Here is some further reading about PayPal and their crazy political views and willingness to go out of their way to aid law enforcement and further invade privacy:

- http://www.cannabisculture.com/articles/4410.html (of course this is possibly slightly biased as it's from Cannabis Culture, but the general facts are pretty scary)

- http://www.PayPalWarning.com

- http://www.PayPalSucks.com

[GeSuS_KRiST]

theres loop holes in everything

what makes you think your IP doesnt do the same or your local mail service

[2CENSone]

your internet protocol address is easily picked up all over the place and beleive it or not depending on your isp so is your personal info as long as the right people are looking for it they can find it...I dont use paypal anyways I use a money order.I would reccomend using a proxy....and postal money orders instead of incriminating and troublsome methods like paypal and credit cards

[What Happened to the Letters?]

yeah its a frigthening and creepy subject what the government can do these days especailly when it comes to the united states and what htey will do to stop this kidn of shit...but fuck it, i want some of those legal herbs the flowers that you trip like dxm sound great...

[bumsuckfun]

What makes me think that my IP doesn't do the same? Quite simply, my numeric IP address doesn't alert local law enforcement what I graffiti supplies I buy, when I buy them, as well as my real name, address shipped to, how I payed, etc. In fact, my IP is not an issue at all, I don't disclose what I write or much information about myself while online, and how the police would get a hold of my IP and be able to match it up with what I do online would require warrents etc. So unless BombingScience and other graffiti forums willingly give IP's to Law Enforcement, or unless LEO's are getting warrants for member's IP's on forums, than that issue pales in comparison to PayPal putting people names on the local police departments 'suspicous' list, and definatley doesn't help anyone out in court. So yes, I am aware that my IP contains sensitive info, but it should also be noted that I use proxies, so as long as I'm not giving out information about what I'm buying online (as well as other personal info), and as long as the police don't have warrants (and as I stated, that haven't), and as long as BombingScience doesn't willingly report IP's and orders to the police without warrants (highly doubtful), then I fail to see how my IP relates to this issue in even the slightest sense.

So no, Gesus your a smart guy, but what you said has nothing really to do with this issue at hand.

Oh, as for local postal service, I don't see why they'd be alerting police of what I buy, once again this invasion of privacy (illegal), requires warrants, etc. Hell, this is Canada, you can send weed through the mail... so no, the Canadian Postal Service is definately not at fault, nor do they have the ability to rip open my mail, and then report the non-illegal contents to local police. I can't even begin to think of how highly-illegal that would be.... federal crime...

[What Happened to the Letters?]

yeah my stepdad luckily is kind of a computer genious so to get into my computers fuiles is more toruble than its owrth but when i move out soon i sure as hell dont have the ocmputer knowledge he has

[joker00]

shit homie i neva new that thnx 4 all the new info and from the site su have posts seems like u arnt parnoid its the truth from what i see but what do u do 2 order shit now ?

[bumsuckfun]

Originally posted by joker00@Mar 7 2006, 04:49 PM
shit homie i neva new that thnx 4 all the new info and from the site su have posts seems like u arnt parnoid its the truth from what i see but what do u do 2 order shit now ?
well, ordering through paypal is still most likely safe, the chances of your order getting both noticed and reported to police is VERY slim, however paypal's agreements that you agree to when you sign up does allow them the right to basically whore out your private non-illegal purchases to police when they see fit (and anything that a square wouldn't consider 'wholesome' seems to be enough for them to report it).

even if the cops do have your order, there is nothing illegal about buying paint, markers, caps, etc, but it could land your ass on the investigation list of the graffiti unit of your local police dept, which is never a good thing, or could be used to build a case against you if you're already on it as many people are. this problem is exponentially worse if you live in an area with a budding or non-existant graffiti scene, in which one kid buying spraypaint and markers from a graffiti shop would be more worth looking into then say, a kid in downtown NYC who buys paint, as he'd just be one in god-knows-how-many writers.... but in a scene with a small amount of writers it definately doesn't work in your favor, and could lead to police investigation.

of course money-orders and other payment options are still good, safe, and your privacy is assured.

[2CENSone]

yes your ip does leave tracks through out all the sites you visit and it does this also when you use paypal.Thats how they would be able to tell if you were fraudulent using a credit card or anything else.It logs all that info.

[2CENSone]

and theres no reason for any company to get a warrant just for a ip log...what the fuck have you been smoking?I should know I am a long time contributor of neworder.box.sk
plus I use *nix :lol: that alone makes me the shit lol...

[bumsuckfun]

yeah, okay... paypal knowing my IP and what i do isn't a concern. clearly they're going to know who i am, because not only does my IP leave tracks with them, but i willingly give them real name, address, telephone number, bank accnt info, credit card info, etc. when i sign up....

same deal with bombingscience, they too are going to know all the info about me when i place an order...

the concern here is not paypal knowing, and it's not bombing science knowing, it's paypal reporting what i buy to the police despite nothing illegal having taken place. if you cannot see how this has absolutely nothing to do with IP addresses and remaining anonymous on the web than please stop posting your replies.

i'm well aware of how IP addresses work, as well as the postal service, so please don't post these reponses because they are COMPLETELY OFF-TOPIC TO THE CONCERN AT HAND.

and yes 'companies' (i'm assuming you mean website administrators?) do get warrants for IP logs. it happens all the time when illegal behaviour takes place online.

[2CENSone]

oh ok so your trying to say that paypal is reporting your shopping habits?If so I would believe this because I have heard alot of people bitch about that but its just that paypal reports your habits to spam agencys...not the police.....I dont think you have anything to worry about because the cops cant do shit if your buying anything..plus I think paypal has better things to do then spy on little ol you there lol

[bumsuckfun]

again, you're post gives me the impression that you'd rather put your post-count up one than actually give a constructive response to the topic at hand, and again i'm given the impression that you still don't really comprehend what had been said....

the problem is that paypal DOES care when people's shopping habits doesn't fit their political views. did you even read what i wrote in the main post? did you check out the links i included? and if you did read them, were you able to comprehend what was being written?

you'll also noticed that i already said buying paint, etc. isn't illegal. however having this information reported to the police is invasive to privacy and something that i'm sure most graffiti artists would rather not have happen.

furthermore paypal also hurts vendors, so it goes beyond me but could hurt BombingScience itself. but you already knew that because you read what i wrote in the first post thoroughly and was able to comprehend right?

this also varies tonnes from paypal selling market trends to spam companies, as they don't disclose people's names, etc. and even if they did give your name, information and purchases to spam agencies, that doesnt hurt you in the form of legal action?

for writers that put real work in on the streets and purchase caps (or whatever) from bombingscience online via paypal, this is a potentially a real concern....

[2CENSone]

this is the most useless thread I have seen.....just use a money order man..

[bumsuckfun]

I plan on it. Do you think I made this thread for my own personal benefit? To share this information with myself? To ask how I should pay for my next order? Get out of here, this is clearly well over your head....

It might be useless to you, but it's a potential concern for others. If it wasn't, there wouldn't be such a big deal about Pay-Pal's invasive practices among thousands of others worldwide now would there? I posted here, because it possibly relates to the BombingScience shop, and i think many people who participate in graffiti value their privacy, many not the kids who come here and post their grade, their school and their lists of friends and what they write, but for actual heads...

[2CENSone]

...........teenage angst.......*sigh*

[*DEA*]

Originally posted by bumsuckfun@Mar 7 2006, 04:23 PM
First off, I've been a BombingScience customer for about 3 years, which has included buying buying online many, many times, as well as buying in person at both Breakdown and Revolution Records (both Halifax stores that have been BS affiliates) and SubV in Montreal.

Second off, it has come to my awareness that Pay-Pal is essentially a narc unit, willing to report any suspicious behavior to the authorities, regardless of whether or not anything illegal has taken place and regardless of whether the products being used are illegal or not. Basically, if it doesn't fit PayPal's very conservative George Bushish political views then they might narc you out if it comes to their attention.

This never really concerned me, but I started hearing reports of people (and shops) getting fucked over again and again on the internet, most of which for buying things such as pipes, bongs and psychoactive (but legal) herbs (even when they are being sold as 'inscense' and strictly labeled 'not for human consumption').

My real concern is that if Paypal is willing to narc out people selling legal herbs, even when they go the further step to make it seem 'politically correct' by labelling them as incense and not for human consumption, than what's keeping Paypal from narcing out people selling (and buying) graffiti products. Sure enough, graffiti products are not illegal, nor is the sale of them, but they definately don't fit into the political views that paypal and it's acceptable use policy seem to put into place. Again to look at the herbs, which are not illegal to possess or sell, or even use in an intoxicating matter, there is reports of paypal narcing people out and in general screwing people over. Graffiti products, similar to herbs are not illegal to possess or sell, however they go one step more 'offensive' (in Paypal's eyes) as the use of the products could very well be for illegal purposes (although they could also be used legally, but the fact of the matter is that the illegal use is a very real option, in comparison to ethnobotanicals which are not illegal in any way/shape/form or use).

My concerns further into my own legal issues, in which something that was said by local police authorities gives me the impression that they know which graffiti products I have purchased from this site using my PayPal account? Am I just being paranoid and mis-interpreted what was being said? Perhaps I heard wrong? Or perhaps PayPal narced on me? Again, what was said by law enforcement wasn't a straight up "we know what you bought using pay-pal" but I was left with that impression. It is also worth mentioning that I have not been arrested nor has their been any warrants that would allow local law enforcement to view my information, so for them to even have the slightest hint at what I do and buy online is very, very, very scary, especially in a country like Canada where the police have very limited rights when it comes to searching up information on people they deem suspicious.

Anyway, I just wanted to state how I felt and perhaps I'm just being paranoid, but thought it was a concern worth sharing at the very least, as it could possibly affect not only customers of BombingScience, but BombingScience's Shop itself. Just my 2 cents...

Here is some further reading about PayPal and their crazy political views and willingness to go out of their way to aid law enforcement and further invade privacy:

- http://www.cannabisculture.com/articles/4410.html (of course this is possibly slightly biased as it's from Cannabis Culture, but the general facts are pretty scary)

- http://www.PayPalWarning.com

- http://www.PayPalSucks.com
WHERE THE FUCK IS BREAKDOWN I KNOW WHERE REVOLUTION RECORDS IS???

[bumsuckfun]

Originally posted by 2CENSone@Mar 7 2006, 05:46 PM
...........teenage angst.......*sigh*
no, you're just stupid and post-whoring. like most REAL heads, my teen years have come and gone.

i'm not sure where breakdown is, i'm not from halifax, but i have spent some time in halifax on a few occasions.... if i'm not mistaken it was downtown... on the halifax side not the dartmouth side.

i'm not sure if breakdown is even still a BS affiliate... hell, i'm not sure if RR is anymore either... all i can remember is that one time i was there breakdown was the BS affiliate, and the other time i was in hali it was RR that was the BS affiliate...

[*DEA*]

k thanks

[kcs54423]

mgkwmarq (http://mgkwmarq.desiblogz.com)j3zi85klp (http://j3zi85klp.insanejournal.com/)yeh0208bi (http://justblogme.com/yeh0208bi)xirgtdzm (http://xirgtdzm.insanejournal.com/)siude9 (http://siude9.desiblogz.com)

[swe68422]

xxijnzgevu (http://www.blogigo.de/xxijnzgevu/the-time-left-office-the-welfare-rolls-had/27/)nwnz67q (http://nwnz67q.busythumbs.com/entry_id/804026/action/viewentry/)0hv9nca985 (http://0hv9nca985.insanejournal.com/6168.html)dxh4ejxas (http://dxh4ejxas.insanejournal.com/3471.html)bbss (http://bbss.desiblogz.com/171311/In+fact%2C+I+will+make+him+a+senior+official+and.. ..html)

[lisdanz]

wwkom (http://wwkom.baidu.ws/525223/Both+moons+were+nearly+fullThe+procession+could... .html)lingyuan0804 (http://lingyuan0804.lol.to/7298/They+got+some+very+good+suggestions+from+the....ht ml)wplperz5f (http://www.blogigo.de/wplperz5f/Before-long-David-Trimble-who-led-the-largest/18/)ablacj9zix (http://www.blogigo.de/ablacj9zix/The-tunnel-was-low-ceilinged-they-had-had/41/)huangheaini (http://huangheaini.insanejournal.com/13474.html)

[Dchongz23]

0fz005277 (http://0fz005277.insanejournal.com/)gdmekv (http://gdmekv.baidu.ws)poubui2023 (http://poubui2023.lol.to/)huazhi33yi (http://huazhi33yi.weblogie.com)120tgit72g (http://120tgit72g.insanejournal.com/)

[owe28425]

vdvd (http://vdvd.desiblogz.com/186684/%26quot%3BI%26%23039%3Bm+finished%2C%26quot%3B+he+ thought%2C+and+began+screaming....html)eedd (http://eedd.desiblogz.com/172360/They+are+the+living+embodiment+of+our+national.... html)36hta6939 (http://36hta6939.weblogie.com/198214/%26quot%3BThe+water+is+dangerous+but+if+we+delay%2 C+there....html)joanieniu53w (http://blogs.cjb.net/joanieniu53w/200341/)rumjmbl (http://www.blogigo.de/rumjmbl/Pamela-was-in-her-early-sixties-and-still-a-489/12/)