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bumsuckfun
01-09-2005, 11:41 PM
i came back to the bombingscience forum for the first time in over a year and wrote this article... enjoy...


Before i get going, of course the formals:
- I am not condoning illegal graffiti writing.
- I am not condoning evading legal action or misleading police.
- I am promoting knowledge, and the right to know your own rights and freedoms.
- The following is for educational purposes only.
- The information is, as to the best of my knowledge, accurate. But no guarantees...

//START

If your a Canadian writer it can sometimes be hard to find information regarding to dealing with police situations. It appears as though most information found on sites relating to writing were written with the United States laws in mind (although these are similar to Canada and are worth the read), or in the rare case European laws.... but for whatever reason, information for Canadians doesn't seem to be entering these sites/forums. So here I am writing out a general guide for Canada (it is usually good idea to check local laws since provincial or municipal laws may vary, although those laws usually only affect punishment if you are found guilty). Keep in mind this guide was written with people over the legal age (18) in mind. Also keep in mind this is not a guide for running from the police, or any other illegal activities for evading the police. You can choose to use those at your own discretion depending on the situation. This is the all legal (no running, no lying, but lots of clever wording) way of keeping yourself out of shit creek.

BEING SEARCHED AND/OR HAVING ITEMS CONFISCATED :
Typically if police ask if they can search you then it's a sign you might not be as screwed over as you'd think you'd be. If police have probable cause to search you, or have a search warrant then they wouldn't need to ask you, they'd straight up tell you "I'm going to search you" or whatever. So if they ask, reply with something a long the lines of "No, I do not give you consent to search me." Remember that when dealing with the police always be polite and friendly. Being hostile, angry, or even being a smart ass can work against you. You've got to make yourself sound educated and let them know that you are aware of your legal rights and freedoms, but don't let yourself sound sarcastic or like a smart ass, so sound friendly, polite, and as cooperative as you can while still upholding your rights and freedoms in order to cover your ass. If they begin searching without asking, remember to tell them (clearly) that you do not consent to the search of yourself or your belongings. If they give you a response like "it doesn't matter" or "I'm going to search you anyway" tell them that this is unlawful and anything found under and unlawful search cannot be used in court. As the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms says "Everyone has the right to be secure against unreasonable search or seizure."
Now let's say the police have probable cause. Probable cause can include the smell of marijuana/alcohol/etc, having clearly seen you deface property, obvious intoxication (you look/act drunk or high), etc. If an officer doesn't say anything and begins searching clearly remind them that you DO NOT give consent to be searched or to have your belongings searched. This is when they would mention probable cause (or a warrant) if they have it. Make sure the officer clearly states what probably cause he/she has, and what they are looking for. If probable cause is the smell of marijuana, then make sure they state that they are searching for marijuana. If and when they find paint/markers/etc on you, this is the same as an unlawful search, as none of those items can be used against you. This is why it's very important to make sure you know under what cause they are searching you and what they are searching for. Now to be honest, I believe that probable cause is in the discretion of the officer (another reason why being friendly/polite and as cooperative as possible is good), so that means I can't be positive if the police would consider paint on your hands/clothes or rattling cans in your schoolbag as probably cause (although being scene commit the crime is probable cause). However as far as I know, having paint on your hands/clothes is not illegal, and neither is the possession of spray paint or markers if you are over the age of 18. None the less, if you can silence your cans (I hear powerful magnets applied to the base work), wear gloves, and roll up your sleeves, it probably wouldn't hurt. Try to avoid getting paint on your shoes either. But in this case if they say they have probable cause because of cans rattling, etc, then it probably wouldn't hurt to state "I have nothing illegal in my possession and do not give consent for me or my belongings to be searched." Although the must state what they are searching for, it's probably a good idea to leave other illegal objects at home, such as drugs, alcohol (especially if open and/or if underage), weapons, etc. It also doesn't hurt to leave anything that may be incriminating (sketchbooks, etc.) at home while on missions as well. If they do search you and find spray paint, thats as incriminating as you'd want to be, no need to add salt to the wound.
Warrants is very similar to probable cause, as in the warrant is to search for a specific item. So if they have a warrant for drugs, and find paint, there is no need to get overly worried.
In general searches are not a big deal, as you can probably get off without being searched, and even if they do, all they've done is found spray paint and/or markers. This is somewhat suspicious, but not illegal, so don't incriminate yourself by admitting to have done any illegal activities with the paint/markers. If they ask if you have done anything illegal with them, you can choose to lie (if proven wrong, this could hurt you), or you could choose not to answer. The only information you are required to give to police is your name, address, and date of birth (probably shouldn't lie when giving out that information either, this can get you in even deeper shit, as giving false identification is an offense). If they give you an open-ended question like "what have you used these for" you can answer also very broadly with a response like "painting." If they ask what you were painting, time to shut your mouth and refuse to answer again. Of course, if you wanted to get real technical you could spray a little bit of paint onto a wall in your bedroom, and old bicycle, anything, and if they ask what you painted you could say "I have used this to paint a wall in my room" or "I have used this to paint my bicycle", etc. Of course, saying you ONLY used it to paint a wall/bicycle would be lying. Don't lie if you can give answers like those listed above. Notice how it says "I have used this to paint a wall in my room," and not "I have ONLY used this to paint a wall in my room." If asked why you have them in your schoolbag at such an obscure hour, you could reply that you placed them in there earlier and haven't dropped them off at home yet. This would technically be true, since you did place them in your bag earlier, and haven't dropped them off at home yet...
UPDATE (Sept 1 / 2005): A (popular) example of police trying to trick you into letting them having items in your possession that they can not legally confiscate is to ask you "If you were me, would you take the paint?". Basically this is them ASKING for LEGAL PERMISSION to take your paint away from you, but they try to word it otherwise. The best way to answer this is to say that spraypaint isn't illegal and that you'd like to keep your possessions. Don't play along with the whole 'if you were me' game, it's all a bunch of bullshit, they're just trying to get you to answer in a way that gives them the permission they need. If they could just take your paint, they would, without asking.




CAUGHT WHILE PAINTING:
Okay, let's say your painting a piece, you goto pick up a different can, you stand back for a second, anything, and the police come over. It seems pretty bad because here you are with your paint covered gloves, a can in your hand, and fresh paint on the wall, but you DO have one thing going for you, and that is that the police did not clearly see you painting the wall (this is a good idea to move all paint, and yourself, far from the wall if you hear footsteps, voices, or other strange sounds, until you investigate them). Basically that means they'll ask "did you just paint that wall?". Be careful to questions like that, and also be very aware that they probably won't word it as outright as that. They will probably make it seem as though they are making a statement rather than asking, or make it seem like they already know that you were. Just remember, if they did see you paint the wall for sure, they would not need you to say that you did. Don't get tricked into confessing without realizing it. However, that question may be risky and you are really only given 3 options. To say yes (bad idea), to deny or to simply keep your mouth shut (after all, the only information you need to give is your name/address/DOB). Let's say you deny, make up some lame lie like you saw the cans on the ground while walking by and were going to take them home with you for whatever reason. If they didn't see you painting, it may work, but its a long shot. If they did see you painting or otherwise prove your lying then you'll be in deeper shit just for lying. Now clearly not responding or stating 'I am not required by law to answer that question' will seem somewhat out of place as well. Perhaps the best way to not-answer that question is to reply asking "Are you detaining me?." If the answer is yes, ask under what grounds. If the answer is no, ask "am I free to go?" (perhaps best worded more naturally, "I should be getting home, am I free to go?". If they reply that you are not allowed to leave, then state "you just said I am not being detained, so I am free to go?". Not being free to go is in sense being detained. If the officer responds that you are being detained, ask under what cause. Chances are you already know the answer to this question. The next logical question I can think to ask after this (keep in mind you haven't admitted to painting the wall yet, you lead them off with a trail of questions) would be "am I under arrest?" If the answer is no, then repeat the process of questions about being detained, and being free to go. If the police ask you to goto the station with you (but haven't officially arrested you) than that is considered arbitrary detention, and you do not have to comply with it. Basically, to make things simpler, the only information you MUST give the police is your name, address, and date of birth. After this, the police have two options, to arrest you or to let you free. If you didn't let yourself get tricked into confessing your making yourself any more suspicious, then it MIGHT be hard for the police to lawfully arrest you, so there is a VERY SLIM possibility you will go free. If you are under arrest, there is 4 things that the officer must officially do. Make sure you pay VERY CLOSE ATTENTION to this because if they don't do one of the steps you may be able to have your case thrown out. The 4 things are:

1) Say who they are and show identification (in other words, show you their badge, etc.).
2) Tell you they are arresting you, explain why they are arresting you, and make sure that you understand why they are arresting you.
3) Touch you in a non-harmful way as an indication that you are officially under arrest.
4) They have to tell you that you have the right to call a lawyer and that you can remain silent.

Number 2 is an interesting one. If they did not see you clearly painting, and you didn't give yourself up on it, then if they say they are arresting you for painting the wall you can tell them that you don't UNDERSTAND (key word) why they are arresting you if they did not see you paint the wall. Either way they can probably argue they have enough evidence against you, but get them to point out that evidence. If they say you had spray paint, tell them that it is not illegal to have possession of spray paint and that you haven't had a chance to drop it off at home yet, etc. In other words, bring up points stating that you do not UNDERSTAND why you are under arrest if the officer did not clearly see you commit the crime. Remember to stay polite and friendly, yet sound knowledgeable, and make sure you are clearly stating you don't understand you are being arrested. If you are lucky enough, you may get off scot-free, you may be issued a warning or a caution, or something along those lines. But there is a good chance you will end up under arrest anyway.
Number 3 can also be interesting, and worth paying attention to. If the officer makes a movement as if they are going to touch you make a statement along the lines of "I do not give consent to be touched." Chances are, this won't work, but if you sounded knowledgeable talking to the officer before they may think you are a law buff and being afraid of causing trouble for themselves, they might not touch you. Excellent. Don't make a big deal of the fact they didn't touch you until you are talking to your lawyer, hopefully your lawyer can make a big deal out of this and get your case thrown out... it's a long shot, but if you can remember this it might just save your ass.
Number 4 is in the same boat as Number 3. Make sure they say it, and if they don't, don't remind them that they didn't. Leave this little detail for when you're talking to your lawyer. Speaking of which, whether they said it or not, it's good advice to remain silent and to call your lawyer. Keep in mind that according to the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms you are allowed privacy with your lawyer. Anyway, details aside, things didn't work out and you ended up arrested... more information in the 'You've Been Officially Arrested' Section.




YOU'VE BEEN OFFICIALLY ARRESTED:
First thing to note is that this said you've been OFFICIALLY arrested, referring to that the police used all 4 things required to officially arrest you, and that you were clearly seen painting the wall. There isn't much you can do to get out of being busted for that one wall, so this section is dedicated to keeping yourself out of even more shit once arrested. Assuming that you have been busted for that one piece they caught you painting, one thing they're very likely to do, is to try to get you to confess to other graffiti. Usually they'll do this by matching tag names, and there is a chance they'll even have photos of other graffiti you've done, and maybe even some that you haven't. So what do you do? Simple, don't admit to have done that other graffiti. I'm not saying you lie and give them a straight up no, just be calm and careful with your wording. They'll probably try to say something like "we know you did it. it's obvious, the signature looks exactly the same, blah blah blah". You don't admit to doing it, no matter what. Try to avoid lying to. The best thing if they say something along those lines would probably be "No, you don't." Now you may be thinking, I thought you said 'don't lie', and you're right. Saying "No, you don't" is you saying that the police don't know you did that other work. Its careful wording that works in a way to try to deny you from having done the other graffiti, and also undermines the police knowledge on it. Just think of it this way, how many times have you seen SLAYER or METALLICA or AC/DC written in public in the exact same style letters. If the police catch one person writing SLAYER he can't truly be blamed for everyone else who has written it exactly the same. So, don't admit to having done those other tags. If they ask why they are exactly the same say you aren't sure why it is, or that maybe you think some other kids have decided to write it too. Using the SLAYER/METALLICA/ACDC reference is something you should tell your lawyer, but not the police, perhaps he could use it in court for your defense. Let all the incrimination against you happen in the court. By letting the police no as little as possible you are able to keep them from building a case. At the same time, you are learning how they work and what they know, letting you and your lawyer build up a case. You may get busted for that one piece you got painted but they sure as hell don't have concrete evidence you painted/tagged anything else if you use these tactics. If the police continue to persist that they KNOW you did it, ask how they know you did it, etc. Reverse the tables and find out what they know and discuss with your lawyer. You can undermine them and build your case up while they learn nothing from you. Once again, I cannot stress how important it is you don't let the police know what you know, or even your tactics. This will give them something to build a case up against you. I almost forgot a very important thing, and that is what if the police outright ask you "Did you do those other tags?" A good answer would be "I cannot be responsible for what any other teenagers/kids do with spraypaint/markers/whatever." You are not lying, but you do slide the blame away from you while exploiting just how weak of a case the police have against you. The police will make it seem like they have a huge case against you, with tonnes of evidence. If they tell you scary accurate details about what you were wearing while painting another piece, or anything along those lines, reply again "I cannot be responsible for what other people do, even if it is similar to what you have accused me of doing." In the case of clothes, lets say they say you were wearing jeans and black nike hoody say "I can't be responsible for what everybody in jeans and a nike hoody has done." Again, slides the blame away without lying. Remember to be very careful not to say something like "I can't be responsible for anything anybody has done that is similar to what I had done." While it may seem like you slid the blame away, you also admitted to the crime you were arrested for. Bad idea. Even though you are probably going to get in shit for it anyway, and this section assumes you are and is about avoiding more shit, just keep in mind it's not over until the fat lady sings. Never admit, let the judge decide if the police have enough against you. If the police ever tell you that they even have pictures or video of you doing graffiti, ask to see it. Don't admit, don't deny or lie. Just say something like "well, I'm not sure how that could be, do you mind if I look at these supposed pictures/video?". Once again, be careful with wording. Do not say something like "well that'd be interesting to see," even though it's not admitting to it, it could be used against you as you aren't denying that it exists. If the photos/videos do exist, there is no proof that it is you unless there are super clear facial shots or anything of the like either. So don't fret too much. If you wear a mask in the first place, then even less to worry about. Basically, if you aren't able to come up with clever non-lying denials for what they ask, don't answer. Say you feel uncomfortable and don't want to answer, or anything along those lines, or simply say nothing at all. Because if you aren't careful and speak you can do more harm than good without even realizing it.
Another thing to keep in mind, be prepared to do some embarrassing things. If you are being interrogated they may use bathroom breaks as a way to get you to confess. This means they may have water on the table, and over time you may feel the urge to piss. While not moral they may say they can only let you use the bathroom if you confess. NEVER CONFESS. PISS YOUR PANTS BEFORE YOU CONFESS. I'm serious, I'd rather pee my pants right there and get it out of me, then to confess to things. Remember, interrogation cannot go on forever. If it goes on for what seems like too long, ask to speak to your lawyer in privacy. At the very least it'll give you a break, he can give you some tips, and you can make sure the police at the very least are conducting legal interrogation. Never sell yourself short, let the judge decide if you did what you are being accused of, no matter how much things stack against you. Also remember that police are not in charge of 'cutting you deals'. Offering less sentence time for ratting on somebody else, etc. Sentencing is upto the judge and can't be determined until you are charged with the crime (judge finds you guilty). In other words, they may say you'll get a less of a sentence if you rat somebody out, but how would the police know this if you haven't be charged or even sentenced yet. If, however, you are charged and sentenced by the judge (God forbid), then they may try to cut your sentence for real. Just remember, no matter what, NO RATTING. You know all the shit you've been through, don't make it harsh for anyone else. When and if you are sentenced, try to see if you can get into a deversion program, or perhaps community service in exchange for lesser fines and/or lesser to no jail time (if it's that serious). No matter how little the sentencing, check the alternatives out...



YOU'VE BEEN RATTED OUT:
Being ratted out is the same as the previous section on being arrested, except they didn't even catch you painting in the first place. Follow the same guidelines as the previous section on being arrested and hopefully everything works out fine. Chances are they can't prove anything unless you pretty much (and possibly inadvertedly) told them what they needed to hear. Word cleverly and surely when you can, and when you can't, say nothing at all. Basically somebody said that you do graffiti, and what you write, but they didn't list any specific places or times or places you did graffiti. A person could be a witness in court and say that you write 'whatever' but since the person didn't witness you actually do the graffiti it doesn't help the case against you much... However, the police will try to use this information to question you more, and try to get you to talk. If you've been ratted on and the police ask you to go down to the station for questioning, it's probably best to politely refuse. If after someone rats on you, the police show up and arrest you, it's best to remain silent.
Now in the case that the person who ratted on you also gives a specific time/location that he witnessed you vandalise property... well, I think in this case say NOTHING to the police, talk only to your lawyer.


HOUSE SEARCHES:
The police show up at your house with a search warrant. Check the warrant and see what it's for. Check to see what they are allowed to seize according to the search. Ask the police officers for their names and badge numbers. If the warrant is for drugs and they find paint, sketches, markers, whatever, then they can't seize that or use it against you. Seizing it or using it against you would be unlawful. If they do have a warrant for graffiti stuff, and find it, what they have no is evidence against you, but possibly not proof. It's not illegal to be in possession of those items, so you can't be arrested or charged for that. As in the previous two sections, just don't let it work against you, and don't let yourself work against you. If they find sketches, there is no proof to say that you didn't draw what you saw on the street. Drawing what you saw on the street is not illegal. Proving that because you have something on paper that you painted it on a wall can be a tough sell if you don't confess or inadvertedly tell them what they need to hear. Try wording it in such ways that don't indicate whether the sketch was drawn before or after the piece was painted. Once again, know how to be quiet, or use the Ronald Reagan "I Don't Recall" answer to questions that would be hard to answer without directly lying.

The Lie Detector:
Lie Detector (Polygraph) use is becoming more and more common, as the cost of polygraphs goes lower. Now, the first thing to keep in mind, and this is VERY IMPORTANT, is that in most (or all?) cases, you DO NOT have to take the lie detector test. The police may once again try to trick you into taking it, perhaps by telling you that by taking it you can 'clear your name right now'. Again, REFUSE to take the test, just say you'd rather be on your way or whatever, just don't take the test. In a case where the police try to make you take a lie detector test, consult with a lawyer first, seeing as how I don't think the police have a right to make you take a polygraph, but I'm not a lawyer, so it's best to check with one. I highly recommend going to http://www.antipolygraph.org and reading what they have, not only about how the lie detector is unreliable and had a low accuracy rate, how the lie detector is based off tricking the person taking it (you), and tips for beating a lie detector in the case that you HAVE to take one. It is not a bad or wrong thing to do, to refuse to take a lie detector test, and they can't use it against you in any sort've way, the very same way they can't use you refusing to let them search you to make you seem more suspect.

GENERAL TIPS:
- Wear gloves and roll up your sleeves. Keep the paint off your hands and clothes.
- Wear a mask. It'll keep your pretty face from unknowingly being photographed or videotaped. Plus if it's a respirator it'll keep your lungs nice and safe.
- Be aware of the environment around you while painting, as well as noises such as a car pulling up and stopping, somebody walking close by, etc, etc. When these happen, remove yourself and paint from the immediate area of the wall and investigate what's up.
- Don't leave cans at the crime scene. Finger printing is getting fairly cheap and practical for the police to use, and if they think they can bust you for other graffiti they wouldn't be against checking prints. At the same time, nobody is to say that just because you touched some cans, you actually did graffiti. Anybody can walk by a public place, see cans, pick them up to see what they are, and put them back down on the ground. Again, police will try to trick you if they have your prints... don't be fooled.
- When talking to police be calm, confident, knowledgeable, polite and friendly. Be as cooperative as possible without the risk of incriminating yourself... unless you're put under arrest, then remain silent, and only talk to your lawyer. ONLY YOUR LAWYER. (If you don't have one, say nothing anyway. Just keep saying nothing. Try to get a lawyer... and in the meantime, say nothing to the police.)
- KNOW YOUR RIGHTS. Read this over a few times, read the Canada Charter of Rights and Freedoms.
- Check these relevant links: http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/charter/ & http://www.settlement.org/sys/faqs_detail....&faq_id=4000360 (http://www.settlement.org/sys/faqs_detail.asp?passed_lang=EN&faq_id=4000360) & http://www.antipolygraph.org/
- If you are being charged with vandalism to business/private property, talk to the owners and see if you can't somehow get the charges dropped. Even so, try not to admit. Just say it isn't worth the hassle of the court system if you could simply clean it off.
- Lawyer fees are better to pay then legal fees, fines, and a record.
- You have to remember that legal thinking and logical thinking are two VERY different things. If the police present enough evidence where any sane person would easily assume you did it, you might not be caught. The legal system thinks very different. So don't let them stack evidence against you and tell you it's obvious you're caught. If this was true, they woudn't be needing you to say anything or sign anything.
- DON'T SIGN ANYTHING.
- You are innocent until proven guilty. This is why you don't have to deny things, you merely don't have to let yourself get tricked into admitting them.

ALWAYS REMEMBER:
The police, if charging you with a crime, don't need to talk to you at all... so when they're talking to you, they're only trying to get you to incriminate yourself. If they need to ask you to do something, they don't have the right to do it, or else they would've done it without asking... so whenver they ask you if they can do anything, take anything, get you to do anything, etc.... just refuse. And if you're already under arrest, it's probably best not to talk to them at all...

GeSuS_KRiST
01-09-2005, 11:55 PM
wise fuckin words glad to see someone else knows about law here


remember your innocent until proven guilty in the us

DNA
01-10-2005, 12:30 AM
im saving that!
but, what about Geroge W.'s god damn "Patriot Act" where they can arrest you without a warrent??

bumsuckfun
01-10-2005, 12:42 AM
not being american i'm not sure what the patriot act is about for sure.

but i don't believe the patriot act allows them to arrest you for no cause. i think it might give them more liberty to take away your privacy though. as in, walking around corporate offices, railways, etc, at night time could be considered suspicous under the patriot act, and is thus cause for them to search you with a warrant. finding you with spray paint is not illegal if your over the age of 18 in most areas, so unless they can prove you were out doing vandalism and what exactly you vandalised, then there is nothing to fret about.

GeSuS_KRiST
01-10-2005, 12:42 AM
that wont hold up in court unless if invloves terriorism and the fbi/cia i think

yuki
01-10-2005, 12:52 AM
Interesting post. Thank you. I live in the U.S., and I would be curious to know how many of the laws and statutes are the same here, but nonetheless it sounds like pertinent iformation to all who write graff.

--Lyra--
01-10-2005, 01:03 AM
thanks, its much appreciated!

wish i had have seen this earlier though

"ZEAK"
01-10-2005, 01:15 AM
hey thanks for the info im pretty sure alota thats the same for the us

GeSuS_KRiST Posted on Jan 10 2005, 12:55 AM
wise fuckin words glad to see someone else knows about law here


remember your innocent until proven guilty in the us

^^^ hahah more like guilty till proven innocent ^^^ in the fuckin cops eyes atleast

:blink:

"ZEAK"

GeSuS_KRiST
01-10-2005, 01:27 AM
thats true but cops arnt the ones who matter and decided your fate

''O.S.T!''
01-10-2005, 02:29 AM
BEST POST IVE SEEN YET in the tools an tips section.....
for others...keep in mind if youre already on charges when yu get rolled upon yur probly betr of to get the fuk out at all costs... :ph34r:

werd up,hope to see more posts

Ume
01-10-2005, 02:30 AM
thanks alot, this is gonna help lots one day.

vegimite on toast
01-10-2005, 05:08 AM
That was a very good post man, nice work. And Gesus about that america pride bullshit, your innocent until proven guilty in us blah blah whoof whoof, what about david hicks? A suppossed 'terrorist' that has been held in guantanamo bay by the U.S for over 3 years without any trial and being denied any contact with his lawyer? And that isan't the only person being held there under investication for 'terrorist activity' and being a threat to o' holy america :rolleyes:. So whats up with your great laws now? Oh yeah i forgot about the unwritten law in your piss weak constitution 'Innocent until proven guilty, unless of course your a muslim and have a beard.' So thats why he's being held! Of course, God bless America, but then whens the last time you have heard fiji say 'god bless Fiji' or Zimbabwe say ' God bless Zimbabwe '? Frankly If god was to show any favouritism to any country ( which he ain't cause in my view he don't exsist ) the U S of A would be down the bottom of the list, way down. This is not a peronal attack on you, i have many good amrican friends, i just hate the Bush administration and all you other right wing bastards.

bbbbbbbbbbbbb
01-10-2005, 07:21 AM
edit

DNA
01-10-2005, 08:13 AM
Originally posted by vegimite on toast@Jan 10 2005, 06:08 AM
That was a very good post man, nice work. And Gesus about that america pride bullshit, your innocent until proven guilty in us blah blah whoof whoof, what about david hicks? A suppossed 'terrorist' that has been held in guantanamo bay by the U.S for over 3 years without any trial and being denied any contact with his lawyer? And that isan't the only person being held there under investication for 'terrorist activity' and being a threat to o' holy america :rolleyes:. So whats up with your great laws now? Oh yeah i forgot about the unwritten law in your piss weak constitution 'Innocent until proven guilty, unless of course your a muslim and have a beard.' So thats why he's being held! Of course, God bless America, but then whens the last time you have heard fiji say 'god bless Fiji' or Zimbabwe say ' God bless Zimbabwe '? Frankly If god was to show any favouritism to any country ( which he ain't cause in my view he don't exsist ) the U S of A would be down the bottom of the list, way down. This is not a peronal attack on you, i have many good amrican friends, i just hate the Bush administration and all you other right wing bastards.
im down with that! Vegimite, were you from? Australia? i was born in Sydney :D !!


and with the Patriots Act im pretty sure you can be arrested with out a warrant if a police man thinks you are suspicius and could be a terrorist. and im sure the police would make some connection between a graffiti artist and a terrorist. :huh:

black graffi
01-10-2005, 08:58 AM
it's a nice tipps,but in my country you get fucked by cops!!!! :angry: if u mess with people they just fuck u and then call the cops so they could too get your ass!!!! :angry: cops dont care laws or #hits like that. its more simple!!!!


run!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

or[SIZE=7]

get fucked[COLOR=red]

ps: z world would much better without rules!!!!!!!!

sika_2002
01-10-2005, 09:42 AM
now thats wot u call helpfull, thanks man

bumsuckfun
01-10-2005, 09:44 AM
I just added a few things to the general tips part of it. When I think of more I'll be editing my original essay.

MoNkEy
01-10-2005, 10:42 AM
thats a decent post, well done :) ur one col cat B)

sika_2002
01-10-2005, 12:39 PM
so cool, hes "col"

Shrink
01-10-2005, 01:05 PM
Nice man, I'll keep it in mind.
Originally posted by blackgraffi
ps: z world would much better without rules!!!!!!!!

HAHAH! Yeah fuckin' right...

inker
01-10-2005, 01:54 PM
guy knows waths up
as for that innocent until proven guilty is bullshit your guilty until proven innocent

inker
01-10-2005, 02:19 PM
wish i knew that b4 know they got me on that bullshit gang profile wath about rent a cops can they detain you or wath cant they do to you that they try to do

e.pau-hp
01-10-2005, 02:19 PM
Extremely usefull post. Thanx for taking the time.

bumsuckfun
01-10-2005, 02:41 PM
rent a cops, security guards, whatever can detain you under citizens arrest, and nothing more (unless they are government security guards, or some other high-end guard in which more powers might be given to them). so check out the rules for citizens arrest and detainment in your local area.

laws for citizens arrest are usually pretty tricky, and i think usually only apply to felonies... but once again i'm not sure and i think it varies from area to area. although one thing on your side... its not illegal to lie to someone who isn't a police officer (as far as i know) on something like that. and running away wouldn't be considered evading arrest or anything else (same deal)... so as far as i know (but i'm not very certain on this subject) feel free to lie or run away from security guards.

After doing a search, I could not find any information for citizens arrest in Canada. So there is a good chance that the most they could do it TRY to detain you. Likewise, you could TRY to run away. Basically security guards have no more power than the average well-thinking citizen. In the US, laws for citizens arrest do exist in many places, but vary from state to state and possibly even city to city...

It's also worth knowing that the police typically do not have much more power as well-intended citizens too. However the more suspicious you are, the more dangerous the situation could be (another good reason to speak gently and politely), or in the case they caught you redhanded, than their powers of authority go up. So if you keep suspicous behaviour to a downlo, talk friendly, etc. etc then you'd be surprised how little power the police have to tell you what to do. Their powers consist of asking you your name, address, and date of birth. After that they can't force you to say or do anything else. At this point their options are to arrest you or allow to you leave freely.

What police and security guards have on their side is the ability to speak to you in a way in which you may voluntarily give up your rights. If you LET the police/security walk all over you then they are allowed to. If you defend your rights, and don't consent to anything, there is suprisingly little they can get you to do...

ozzy_626
01-10-2005, 02:43 PM
omg.... i think i just found a new bible :lol:

oblong
01-10-2005, 04:33 PM
"right click...copy.......paste to microsft word"

thank you, that was very informative
great way to rejoin bs
welcome back

cyd
01-10-2005, 04:49 PM
thanks that helps alot even though im in the states now. but does anybody know what rights you have in school? can they search all your stuff (locker, back pack, you) if someone, say anouther student, narks you out? or do they not even need a reason?

mad
01-10-2005, 04:53 PM
damn forgot about copy paste
i wrote most taht shit down lol

this is a dope thread enough with the american rites n bullshit

DjTerrestrialConcept
01-10-2005, 05:01 PM
thats alot of writing.

bumsuckfun
01-10-2005, 05:11 PM
Originally posted by cyd@Jan 10 2005, 05:49 PM
thanks that helps alot even though im in the states now. but does anybody know what rights you have in school? can they search all your stuff (locker, back pack, you) if someone, say anouther student, narks you out? or do they not even need a reason?
in schools it isnt working on a legal system (unless they want to take it that far... doubtful)... but yes, they can search your locker, etc. etc.

just keep in mind, it isn't breaking any laws to lie to the school authorities, but then again, the school probably doesn't care if you deny or not, you might still get in shit... luckily the "shit" is not as bad, since you'd probably just get suspended and/or have to clean up your graff.

The Most Sadistic
01-10-2005, 05:58 PM
..

dcite
01-10-2005, 06:20 PM
wow, lots of info man

props

cyd
01-10-2005, 06:36 PM
Originally posted by bumsuckfun+Jan 10 2005, 06:11 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (bumsuckfun @ Jan 10 2005, 06:11 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-cyd@Jan 10 2005, 05:49 PM
thanks that helps alot even though im in the states now. but does anybody know what rights you have in school? can they search all your stuff (locker, back pack, you) if someone, say anouther student, narks you out? or do they not even need a reason?
in schools it isnt working on a legal system (unless they want to take it that far... doubtful)... but yes, they can search your locker, etc. etc.

just keep in mind, it isn&#39;t breaking any laws to lie to the school authorities, but then again, the school probably doesn&#39;t care if you deny or not, you might still get in shit... luckily the "shit" is not as bad, since you&#39;d probably just get suspended and/or have to clean up your graff. [/b][/quote]
ok, my school is really shitty, we almost always have 2 or 3 polise officers there during the day. and im not just talking about paint and shit, can they search your stuff looking for alcohol and drugs?

inker
01-10-2005, 07:28 PM
wath can a rent a cop do if he catches you spray painting

inker
01-10-2005, 07:30 PM
wises man on bs

bumsuckfun
01-10-2005, 07:46 PM
yes the school can search your locker for whatever they want whenever the want... usually. i&#39;m not sure how it works at all schools but usually they have that right.

i already answered the rent-a-cop thing. they can try to detain you and/or put you under citizens arrest assuming that citizens arrest is allowed in your area. similar to the police, they may word things tricky and get you to voluntarily give up your rights. think smart, don&#39;t do anything you feel you shouldn&#39;t. security guards have no more special powers than average citizens (except goverment and other high-end guards).

vegimite on toast
01-10-2005, 09:17 PM
Man are you like a lawyer or something? I bet you own an Vesace suit, a rolex, some leather shoe&#39;s and a pipe. haha

GeSuS_KRiST
01-10-2005, 09:41 PM
Originally posted by vegimite on toast@Jan 10 2005, 06:08 AM
That was a very good post man, nice work. And Gesus about that america pride bullshit, your innocent until proven guilty in us blah blah whoof whoof, what about david hicks? A suppossed &#39;terrorist&#39; that has been held in guantanamo bay by the U.S for over 3 years without any trial and being denied any contact with his lawyer? And that isan&#39;t the only person being held there under investication for &#39;terrorist activity&#39; and being a threat to o&#39; holy america :rolleyes:. So whats up with your great laws now? Oh yeah i forgot about the unwritten law in your piss weak constitution &#39;Innocent until proven guilty, unless of course your a muslim and have a beard.&#39; So thats why he&#39;s being held&#33; Of course, God bless America, but then whens the last time you have heard fiji say &#39;god bless Fiji&#39; or Zimbabwe say &#39; God bless Zimbabwe &#39;? Frankly If god was to show any favouritism to any country ( which he ain&#39;t cause in my view he don&#39;t exsist ) the U S of A would be down the bottom of the list, way down. This is not a peronal attack on you, i have many good amrican friends, i just hate the Bush administration and all you other right wing bastards.
ok first off kid i FUCKING HATE the Us but its true i havebeen to court and jail a number of time and i know what im tlakin about they have to prove you did somthing or else u get off the hook easy.... as for the person there hold who fuckin care it dont effect i find it hard to belive that there holding him with no evidence no word no nothing not even being allowed to talk to his lawyer there alot more to every story then you read.... not saying it not possible cas i know just like every other person how corrupt americas gov. system is

not once have i EVER said god bless america not once have i EVER said i even like america and the laws not once have i dissed any other counrty so fuck off thinking im some patriot because liek i said i dont fuckin like a whole counrty thats ultra religious, corrupt, one sided, trigger, war mongers, ect

maze.dsk
01-10-2005, 10:20 PM
man some good shit man now when the fucking campus supervisors try to search me for some tagging i wont get caught with outher shit lol

vegimite on toast
01-11-2005, 12:37 AM
ok first off kid i FUCKING HATE the Us but its true i havebeen to court and jail a number of time and i know what im tlakin about they have to prove you did somthing or else u get off the hook easy.... as for the person there hold who fuckin care it dont effect i find it hard to belive that there holding him with no evidence no word no nothing not even being allowed to talk to his lawyer there alot more to every story then you read.... not saying it not possible cas i know just like every other person how corrupt americas gov. system is

not once have i EVER said god bless america not once have i EVER said i even like america and the laws not once have i dissed any other counrty so fuck off thinking im some patriot because liek i said i dont fuckin like a whole counrty thats ultra religious, corrupt, one sided, trigger, war mongers, ect



:lol: That wasn&#39;t a personal attack allthough reading it over it sorta sounds like it eh sorry i don&#39;t hate you or nothing your cool B) but i just hate the US i understand that not all americans are fucked up i said that i have many good american friends, What i hate is the fucking conservatist wankers. And about that uhh god bless america thing, i didn&#39;t say you said it i was just saying what right do they have to say that(yadda yadda yadda all explained in my first post) &#33;? Have a swing at australia if you want but i don&#39;t care cause it wasn&#39;t an attack on you (although it sounded like one) You seem like an educated person who knows his stuff rather than the other people on here that say shit like &#39; yo yeeer wurd uppp hot dawwwwg &#39; but anyways just saying


Edit: fuck all the punctuation and spelling i can be bothered

GeSuS_KRiST
01-11-2005, 01:19 AM
lol yea i tend to know alot but i took it as a personal stab at me... but now that shits cleared up the only thing i can really stab at Australia is this " THATS NOT A KNOIFE, DIS&#39; IS EH NOIFE" =)

http://www.uip.co.uk/films/crocodile_dundee_la/images/im_crocodile_dundee_04.jpg

vegimite on toast
01-11-2005, 02:08 AM
HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAH&#33;

Ume
01-11-2005, 10:55 AM
Originally posted by GeSuS_KRiST@Jan 11 2005, 02:19 AM
" THATS NOT A KNOIFE, DIS&#39; IS EH NOIFE" =)
thats not a knife, thats a spoon.

bigbomba'
01-11-2005, 03:20 PM
I will reply bout schools way of looking thro your stuff. ASK YOU SCHOOL FOR THERE "SCHOOL CONSTITUTION" that has all of what they can and cant do in it.

At my school they can search your locker at any time for anything that may be banned from school such as a laser pointer. The grounds they use for this search are they say they just "lent" us our lockers under the knowledge that they could be search at any time.

They can search our bags as long as they are not on us. Even if the Teacher sees you stick 10 pounds of crack in your back pack she can t search it untill you take it off your body. But as soon as you put your pack on the floor they can search it.

Searching a person. They can ask you to empty your pockets and thats about it. If they want to "pat" you down they can as long as there are like 3 witness or more so you dont say u got raped by the principle. But once they pat you down if they feel a paint can in the waist band of your pants that can not take it out off you.... For some reason at my school they need eather a court order saying what they can take from you or a cop.

Every kid at my school who uses any type of drug knows this. So I NEVER KEEP ANY THING IN MY LOCKER OR BAG All ways keep anything your stashing on your body.

THAT IS ALL ACORDING TO MY SCHOOL.... MAY NOT BE THE SAME AT YOURS SCHOOL&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;


like in the orginal post dont say anything incrimanting at school. If what ever they are taking at my school is school related some how they useally dont take it.

Example: I bombed in the bath room and on a pop machine. So they search me they found my marker in my bag. I told them i needed it for my art class... So they told me to be on my way... Who needs a 30mm paint marker for art class? PLus i didnt even have a art class&#33;

This is how my school works


ACID

inker
01-15-2005, 12:08 AM
this might sound stupid but fuck it u know that unlawful shit wath if they find a gun can they use that against you

Adamo
02-09-2005, 08:19 PM
BUMP for a worthy thread

element503
02-11-2005, 09:43 PM
i have something to add to that getting caught one. it was a good idea to say i was gonna take the cans home but say this instead. "no... i did see some people run down the alley up there&#33;" they would be like ok...

bumsuckfun
02-11-2005, 09:50 PM
no offense, thats a terrible idea. because you&#39;d be letting them know that suspicious behaviour (graffiti) has been happening, and that fact that you do have paint makes it kind&#39;ve unlikely the real culprits (and there has to be culprits, since your telling the police there is) are running.... plus telling the police that the culprits are running over there, espeically if they don&#39;t ask if you&#39;ve seen culprits, is one of the oldest tricks in the book... the police will see right through you and catch you in your own lie.

you really are better off not lying to the police, especially if (no offense) you&#39;re not completely sure if you know what you&#39;re talking about.

DROZDHCRUE
02-13-2005, 03:30 PM
fuckin thanks i gota remember all that shit ;)

CaSoNe
02-23-2005, 12:58 AM
i feel kinda retarded turning to a internet forum to ask for help about this shit but yeah....
so tonight i got cuffed and thrown into a cell for doing a throw up...undercover cop spotted me and my partner...i have to show in court in a week....do u guys have any advice? i have never been in a court situation...

a vandal called POEM
02-23-2005, 01:13 AM
when you go to court just dress up real nice and look good in front of the judge.. and just be real polite to the judge, and act like this was your first time attepting graffiti and that youll never do it again.. and be all scared and shit ...

CaSoNe
02-23-2005, 01:47 AM
anyone know whats the most i can get charged for this? its my first offence...i know im prob lookin at a fine and community service or something like that...anyone know the odds of my charges being dropped? man this sucks

bumsuckfun
02-23-2005, 07:54 PM
contact the owner of the building you did a throw up on, offer to clean the mess up for them and ask if there is anything else they&#39;d like you to do in exchange for dropping the charges. dropping charges is all in the hands of the property owner (unless it was gov&#39;t building or something), so you gotta suck their dick and get them to drop charges.

AND NEVER EVER EVER EVER ADMIT TO HAVING DONE ANY OTHER GRAFFITI, NO MATTER HOW MUCH IT LOOKS A LIKE. JUST THINK OF ALL THE PEOPLE WHO WRITE &#39;SLAYER&#39; AND SHIT AROUND TOWN IN THE EXACT SAME LETTERS, IF ONE PERSON GOT CAUGHT WRITING SLAYER LETTERS THEY WOULDN&#39;T GET BOOKED FOR EVERY OTHER PLACE AROUND THE GLOBE THAT HAS SLAYER WRITTEN LIKE THAT, SO DON&#39;T LET YOURSELF GET SHITTED INTO MATCHED TAGS, ETC.

Tails0nE
02-23-2005, 08:14 PM
hey yeah all that shit is good advice....

but what if your under the age of 18...

lets say 14 or 15.... what will happen?

bumsuckfun
02-23-2005, 08:44 PM
14 or 15 means less punishment and less shit if you do get convicted... either way, still use the normal ways to try to get out of it... and if you can&#39;t, its the same as an adult just with less punishment and a clean record once you turn 18... its pretty much win-win compared to people 18 and over.

Adamo
02-23-2005, 10:02 PM
eh bumsucker...do you have any advice for getting pulled over ? I&#39;ve always wondered if my rights are still the same while i&#39;m driving, cuz i&#39;ve heard lots of different opinions on your rights being different and cops can do almost anything to you (legally) while driving / being pulled over.

Alio
02-24-2005, 12:12 AM
im on Probation what would happen if i got caught painting..??

Tails0nE
02-24-2005, 08:41 AM
Originally posted by bumsuckfun@Feb 23 2005, 09:44 PM
14 or 15 means less punishment and less shit if you do get convicted... either way, still use the normal ways to try to get out of it... and if you can&#39;t, its the same as an adult just with less punishment and a clean record once you turn 18... its pretty much win-win compared to people 18 and over.



but like if u get caught with paint on you...



wouldnt that get u in shit?


cause in illinois u gotta be 18 to have paint......

styvo
02-24-2005, 10:16 AM
Originally posted by black graffi@Jan 10 2005, 09:58 AM
it&#39;s a nice tipps,but in my country you get fucked by cops&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33; :angry: if u mess with people they just fuck u and then call the cops so they could too get your ass&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33; :angry: cops dont care laws or #hits like that. its more simple&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;


run&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;

or[SIZE=7]

get fucked[COLOR=red]

ps: z world would much better without rules&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;
well said.

where i come from cops used to just beat the shit out of you..
they had a discreet devision that would patrol the train lines just waitin for writers..

now days it aint so bad but u still cop massive penalties for graffiti, they are VERY strict on it.

especially doing panels on trains, you do a panel up to the window height, thats &#036;5000 instant, every foot higher after that = &#036;1000 extra.

so people who have the balls to rock whole cars are considered kings.

so ye #1 rule when writing is to wear your best running shoes and if you see cops or anything resembling them... boom, out of there.

i just went for a paint about 2 hours ago and had to do a runner..
im gettin fast. :P

styvo
02-24-2005, 10:22 AM
also, rights and laws are totally different everywhere in the world, so theres not alot of point asking sum1 for advice unless they are from the same region as you, although some of it might help.

bumsuckfun
02-24-2005, 01:08 PM
like i said, im canadian and everything i&#39;ve written here is made for canadians... i dunno if other provinces have paint laws, but we don&#39;t here... thats a local thing, and i dont know local laws for every province, city, state and town in north america, so you&#39;ll have to see what the local laws and punishments are, although i imagine it&#39;s just a small fine, similar to open liquor or having liquor underage...

for driving... umm, well if they smell liquor or weed, they can search the car for drugs or alcohol. mind you, they are searching for drugs and alcohol and nothing else, if they find anything else and try to charge you because they found it, it won&#39;t count as shit because it&#39;ll be illegal search/seizure. they can only search your car under probable cause, or warrant, and can only search for what they specify as probable cause or what the warrant says. they can&#39;t search you for no reason (pull you over, no speeding, asking to search, etc.). if they ask to search, ask for a warrant. if your car is full of drugs and they&#39;re looking for stolen street signs, then they can&#39;t do shit. likewise, if your car is full of paint and they&#39;re searching for drugs, then they can&#39;t do shit... once they&#39;ve realized that there is no drugs, they can&#39;t take anything else.

CaSoNe
02-24-2005, 03:10 PM
i find it hard to believe if a cop finds ur trunk loaded with bricks of weed hes gonna b like damn i cant do anything about this...oh well u can drive away now

bumsuckfun
02-24-2005, 08:44 PM
if you let him search your car and he doesnt have warrant and/or probable cause and he finds bricks of weed, damn straight your in shit. if he says your car smells like weed (even if it doesn&#39;t, fabricating probable cause is easy) and searches, than yeah your in shit.

but if he has a warrant for, say, illegal firearms and searches you FOR illegal firearms and finds huge bricks of weed? what&#39;s he gonna do? he&#39;s probably gonna take you in, yeah. thats just logical. but in court you can find an illegal search and seizure, it&#39;s in the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms...

not to long ago someone was getting searched for weapons (walking through a park at night), and the cop felt something in his pocket, clearly not a weapon but took it out anyway. It was coke. The guy got arrested. In court the case was thrown out, because it was an illegal seizure.

CaSoNe
02-24-2005, 11:12 PM
ight so 2 days ago i waz busted for graffiti right...did a throwup and after walking away an undercover cop pulls over...he steps out the car tellin us to freeze and said he saw us do it...he then "patteded me down for weapons" in other words he emptied out all my pockets and took out my wallet keys and markers...i also had a can in my jacket pocket which he also took out...he also took my bookbag off my back and opened it...finding 5 cans of paint...which is being used as evidence along with my markers in court...i was also with a friend when this happend and he too did a throw up and had 5 cans of paint and markers etc...when he serched me would that be considered an "illegal seizure"? do u think i should even bother trying to defend myself in court? its my first offence...is it worth it or should i just admit to it and hope the judge goes easy on me since its my first offence?

cr0nik
02-25-2005, 01:34 PM
good advice&#33; thanks, and keep up the good work

bumsuckfun
02-25-2005, 01:40 PM
Originally posted by CaSoNe@Feb 25 2005, 12:12 AM
ight so 2 days ago i waz busted for graffiti right...did a throwup and after walking away an undercover cop pulls over...he steps out the car tellin us to freeze and said he saw us do it...he then "patteded me down for weapons" in other words he emptied out all my pockets and took out my wallet keys and markers...i also had a can in my jacket pocket which he also took out...he also took my bookbag off my back and opened it...finding 5 cans of paint...which is being used as evidence along with my markers in court...i was also with a friend when this happend and he too did a throw up and had 5 cans of paint and markers etc...when he serched me would that be considered an "illegal seizure"? do u think i should even bother trying to defend myself in court? its my first offence...is it worth it or should i just admit to it and hope the judge goes easy on me since its my first offence?
call a local lawyer... getting free advice on such things should be easy, and if your case is fightable the lawyers will definately tell you so, afterall, fighting cases is they&#39;re job and they make money and earn reputation by winning, so they&#39;re not gonna help you if there is no chance in hell of you getting off easy...

bumsuckfun
02-25-2005, 01:43 PM
mind you, if it was an illegal search and seizure, or if it wasn&#39;t, it doesn&#39;t matter too much since your in shit for having painted a wall, not for having been caught with paint and markers in your possession... so if he clearly saw you do it with his eyes, then your chances of getting off are probably nill... unless of course, you lie lie lie and deny deny deny... but that decision is in your hands and could work against you.

name1
04-09-2005, 12:47 AM
i have heard of rights being violated in the nyc subway system due to the "national security" issue and whateva whateva. just another excuse for jakes to keep a nice choker collar on the ghetto.

bigbomba'
04-09-2005, 02:24 PM
rember Big Brother is out to get you&#33;

Alchohlics_Anonymous
04-09-2005, 02:47 PM
nice post bumsuckfun....its def. gonna help me 2morrow at questioning. thanks&#33; :)

bigbomba'
04-09-2005, 05:01 PM
AA you didnt do anything&#33; thats all there is to remember&#33;

SpLiTbomber
05-15-2005, 07:03 PM
ok since all this technical law stuffs commin up, i got a question

the other day i got caught by this dude while i was just writing a tag wit a marker on this big ass pipe behind this school. He got mad but just calmed down n told me to clean it. I did and the guy said we wouldnt have any problems. I think he was the janiter, and after that i left. But the thing is i go to this school on weekends for sum classes, n i think he knows who i am, and i know he could easily find out my address cuz im signed up to these classes, and i left two other tags in two bathrooms inside so im scared taht hell get the cops involved. I know it probly wont happen, but if he does, wat ll happen to me

....comunity service and a court date?

sabe
05-15-2005, 09:19 PM
don&#39;t tag at schools.

at least not at schools YOU attend

skateparadise
05-16-2005, 10:45 AM
i bombed my old skool and when i was in that skool i bombed it too... its alright just dont get caught.

STRIFE
06-23-2005, 01:35 PM
alright so i got caught up last night, some good sumeritan followed me and tipped off the pigs, so im comin back and po is there with the spotlight on me, so i had 2 tags earlier, so i dropped the can of paint in a bush and kept walking to the car, so they patted me down, and found markers and said they were keeping them for evidence, but they got a c all for spraypaint, so they found the can in the bush and bagged it, they checked my hands and no paint, so they cuffed me and brought me in, they said they got me for property destruction, i got no idea whats gonna happen, anyone know what could possibly happen? thanks for anyone who helps

bumsuckfun
06-23-2005, 01:41 PM
best bet is just not to admit you did it. they didn&#39;t see you do it and there was no paint on your hands... see if you can&#39;t get some free legal advice from a lawyer or something in your area. chances are if it was just a few tags and one can of paint, they&#39;ll probably let you off anyway, or worst case would be a fine which isn&#39;t too bad... but if you really want to (perhaps even some lying) you could probably get out of it all together... it doesn&#39;t sound like they have too much on you.

STRIFE
06-23-2005, 01:46 PM
alright sounds good, what kinda lie you suggest? they said they could still smell the tag, how could i make it fit with that?

bumsuckfun
06-23-2005, 01:48 PM
i think a simple &#39;i didnt do it&#39; is a good enough lie for something as small scale as this... remember, innocent until proven guilty... you probably can&#39;t prove your innocent, but they probably can&#39;t prove that your guilty either...

STRIFE
06-23-2005, 02:08 PM
alright, sounds good, im not sure when my court date it, im expecting either a call or sepina, thanks man, ill update everyone with what happenes

HEROIN!
06-24-2005, 02:39 AM
Originally posted by CaSoNe@Feb 23 2005, 01:58 AM
i feel kinda retarded turning to a internet forum to ask for help about this shit but yeah....
so tonight i got cuffed and thrown into a cell for doing a throw up...undercover cop spotted me and my partner...i have to show in court in a week....do u guys have any advice? i have never been in a court situation...
yeah, it was said that you should dress up nice (ironed shirt, pants, a belt, and a tie doesn&#39;t hurt), shave, take out all jewlery (trust me, it helps....even when meeting with your lawyer...you want them to think you&#39;re a conservative kid and that they should work hard for you). always address the judge as "your honor". don&#39;t have an attitude. look scared.

if it&#39;s your first run-in with the law, and you do the above things, you *might* get an ACD (adjournment in contemplation of dismissal). when i was arrested for painting, the judge told me that if i stayed out of trouble (ie, not getting arrested again) for six months, the case is automatically dismissed and doesn&#39;t go on your list of convictions. HOWEVER, it does go on your arrest record, so that if you get arrested for anything ever, the judge can see that you were arrested for "graffiti".

in NY, USA the charges are "making graffiti" and "possession of graffiti instruments". i think they can only charge you with the latter if you are charged with the former, but i&#39;m not 100% on that...
both charges are misdemeanors.

most people get a fine and community service.
the maximum penalty is a &#036;1000 fine and a year in jail. but i think that would only apply to a repeat offender. so don&#39;t worry.

bink
06-24-2005, 04:49 AM
Situation:

i left my blackbook in my friends car when we went to a party. he left the party with another friend of mine to go burn in the parked car. a cop car rolled up while they were smoking, but my friend tossed the blunt and the cop didn&#39;t see it. the cop still smelled the weed and patted both my friends down and looked through the car and took my friends ectasy pill, along with my blackbook. he let the other friend go because he had nothing illegal on him. so that friend told me what happened and how the cop had taken my book as evidence. so i walked over to the car and requested my book back, because it belonged to me and was just in my friends car. he said no, it&#39;s evidence of graffiti. i told him i only do graffiti in my book with my friends. he gave me a number to call. i called the next day and went down to the station and was told that if it is evidence only a judge can release it. so i should attend court with my friend to try and convince the judge to release it to me.

Did the cop have the right to take my book? and if so, will i get it back, i have an old name in my book that i never tagged outside of my book, so i was gonna say that&#39;s what i write and the rest is people i&#39;ve meet. any help would be appreciated, thank you.

epod
06-24-2005, 06:09 AM
it was evidence, he can legally take it but what he couldnt do was search the car. im pretty sure that you have to have broken a law in order for them to search you or your car. and smoking weed isnt a crime lol. and ahaaha making graff? what kind of charge is that... lol. here in ontario its "mischief under or over &#036;5000"

flclnaruto1213
07-13-2005, 08:39 PM
good tips

bumsuckfun
09-01-2005, 12:20 PM
updated... i added more to the being searched section, added a lie detector section, added a new link (http://www.AntiPolygraph.com), and added the always remember part.... sorry i know some of it&#39;s kind&#39;ve repetitive, but it&#39;ll get lodged into your long-term memory better that way (works for me atleast)...

Slaze
09-03-2005, 01:13 AM
there was something mentiond about if your 18, if your under 18 are you not alowed to have paint on you?
Also what if you just admit to it and offer to clean it and do some service. will that get you out of the cort?

metro 519
09-04-2005, 08:00 PM
so what makes a spot legal???

where are these legal spots???

why dont i know???

shineONE
09-05-2005, 03:28 AM
thats kinda wot i wanna know. how do u know if its legal or not.

mail
03-02-2006, 05:34 PM
ok guys, i need advice

i was very stupid and kept bombing my school&#39;s bathooms over and over and they got me on tape going in / coming out of a bathroom that is rarely used so the janitor or whoever was probably the next one to visit it. I also tagged a bathroom once and a janitor came right in after i did it and saw who i was, but didnt catch me in the act.

when i was questioned about this, i was nervous as fuck because they caught me off guard. I told them i didnt do it, claimed up and down, and they tried to throw a felony/checking the cameras for every insance i went into the bathrooms if i didnt admit it. I still kept at it and kept claiming no, but i got a little shaky and ended up saying that i might as well admit it so they dont throw a felony to me. I kept throwing left and rights, saying that i threw the markers away, i only did one, i copied someone elses that i saw around here, etc etc.

they showed me a bunch of pictures they took of my shit, and i think i claimed at one time that i did the one in the quiet building, but none of the rest, etc etc.

I didnt stick to one story, and i didnt write a statement or anything of the sort, and they dont have any proof other than the video of me walking in and out of a bathroom when there wasnt any.
Is the video enough to screw me?

i mean i bombed these bathrooms daily and i fucked shit up bad, the fines will be really bad, plus i dont want to be associated with the name if i get hit with more than just the school, but around the area.

NEVER EVER EVER BOMB YOUR SCHOOL
it will bite you in the ass

[]ASeR-ONe[]paint slinger
03-02-2006, 05:40 PM
all they have is video of you going in and out of a bathroom? there is really no way for them to pin this on you. do other kids use this bathroom? unless you are the only person going in and out than there is no way for them to convict you. stop writting there. don&#39;t bring any type of graff related shit with you to school such as markers, paint, mags, videos, etc. and deny it till you die. if the video caught you in the act your fucked, but it didn&#39;t so play it cool and nothing should happen.
OH&#33; and never claim to doing a tag man&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33; if that is true and they know you write that then you really are fucked. but i guess if they can&#39;t recall you admitting to it then...you should be fine.

DENY DENY DENY&#33;

mail
03-02-2006, 05:45 PM
its a public bathroom, i am a college student
however i dont know if there was anyone in or out of there after i did it because it can be fairly slow in that building, but im assuming there had to be someone else go through other than the janitor - and besides that, he could have missed it his first time around cleaning

i dont plan on writing at school ever again, because this is just bullshit

tha boy in da corner
03-03-2006, 07:16 PM
i knew about keeping it shut and only telling em my name adress and birthdate but DAMN your a real law buff lol never saw a post so long and read it fully&#33; anyway i just got out of shit with cops and feelin kind of low profile but that would help&#33; thanks man

The Stig
03-04-2006, 09:44 AM
this post really helps alot, too bad i&#39;m underaged

spaz65
03-04-2006, 02:38 PM
WOW that is way to long it will take me forever to read that.

murs1
03-04-2006, 03:50 PM
man I wish I had known all that shit a copule months ago. I had no idea all the rights and shit I had. Fucking Bacon bits booked me and never told me why. I might have to use some of that shit in court. Better show all that shit to my lawyer
:lol:

*~ANZIO~*
03-04-2006, 04:08 PM
i was lucky, one night me an my partner went out and i did a piece and he did a throwie, then we went a few buildings down an did repeating throwies all down the building. few days later after school detecs call me to comedown to the station to help with this other crime or some shit and when i walk upstairs on there screens was like 20 pictures of my shit and my blackbook on the table. got my buddy (at the time) too. went thru court and offered to cover it up. the owners didnt want ANY restitution (fixing it) but the court wanted me to paint at least 1 building over, and just got the charge on my record it was awesome, no fine, no jail, no community service..but that was the last time i sprayed, i just use my jumbo pilot and do electrical boxes and bathrooms n shit, wutever i want

*~ANZIO~*
03-04-2006, 04:10 PM
oh and i dressed up, same as when i fuckin beat the piss out of this kid in the middle of the lunchroom but i got like 5 misdeminors for that shit, only got "tagging" on that 1

tha boy in da corner
03-09-2006, 03:59 PM
Originally posted by inker@Jan 10 2005, 02:54 PM
guy knows waths up
as for that innocent until proven guilty is bullshit your guilty until proven innocent
:lol: your the bulshit... canada=innocent till proved guilty
the post saits it was canadian laws...
<_< dumbfuck

force
03-10-2006, 04:38 PM
anyone know where i can check up u.k law?

"SSOR"
03-11-2006, 02:48 PM
I heard about this big writer in SF who got arrested and was not only charged with 3 years for graff but also got another couple years for terrorism, i was wondering if anyone had heard about this kinda thing happening
the dude&#39;s name is vic20 hes part of the kuk crew

soba06
03-11-2006, 05:37 PM
i like the bit bout the searching but wat if there searching for paint and find druggs can hey do u 4 that??????

Logikalone
03-11-2006, 07:45 PM
Originally posted by tha boy in da corner+Mar 9 2006, 04:59 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (tha boy in da corner @ Mar 9 2006, 04:59 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-inker@Jan 10 2005, 02:54 PM
guy knows waths up
as for that innocent until proven guilty is bullshit your guilty until proven innocent
:lol: your the bulshit... canada=innocent till proved guilty
the post saits it was canadian laws...
<_< dumbfuck [/b][/quote]
The US is the same way

Epid3miK09
03-11-2006, 08:55 PM
definately worth the 20 min of reading

Paint Magic
03-11-2006, 09:04 PM
Originally posted by Epid3miK09@Mar 11 2006, 09:55 PM
definately worth the 20 min of reading
it really was

"SSOR"
03-13-2006, 09:12 PM
i was just wondering about carrying markers and shit in your bag on a plane or like checking the luggage and if airport security will notice and maybe do something about it, i ask this since im flying to vegas in a week and i wanted to tag some shit while im there

BRAINE
03-14-2006, 11:37 AM
Originally posted by "SSOR"@Mar 13 2006, 10:12 PM
i was just wondering about carrying markers and shit in your bag on a plane or like checking the luggage and if airport security will notice and maybe do something about it, i ask this since im flying to vegas in a week and i wanted to tag some shit while im there
i put my markers in the luggage i checked, but you can bring them on the plane, i just wouldnt bring paint because it could explode and i dont think theyll let you on with it anyways.
i just flew to nashville from detroit last week, so i know northwest doesnt care.

Max Pain
03-14-2006, 02:25 PM
THANK YOU "BUMS SUCK FUN"

SKET_ONE
03-17-2006, 06:58 PM
you sound like you used to be a cop or sumthing who got fired and hated them forever... but damnn you really know what your talking about. makes me wanna be a lawyer for artists

Slaze
03-18-2006, 12:29 PM
about being detaind rember they can only hold u for up to 15 min. after that u can just leave. so as he said avoid saying anything, i woud start off with asking the time and then trying to get by the 15 min by saying as little as posible, mabe start a concersation, ask where he saw the painting, seem curious about the law for graffiti, ask something like, "can u be aressted for being suspected of painting a wall?" avoid sounding like u know alot about graffiti

DO NOT PUT YOUR BAG ON THE GROUND OR LET THEM SEE YOU THROW IT IN THE BUSHES.
IT BECOMES PUBLIC PROPERTY AND THE COPS THEN HAVE THE RIGHT TO SEARCH AND KEEP IT&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;

what should u do if common person trys to stop u or the mannager of the building your taging????????????/
my friend says to run, i figure if your cought offer to cleen it or ask if u can finish and tell them "if u like it i will do a advertisment painting on the fron of your store (_____store name here), and if you dont like it i will cleen it" but thats just me.
any advice?

bob
03-20-2006, 06:46 PM
This is something worth reading for 8 pages with no pictures, wow. I feel obliged to add something worthwhile.

Found this from one of the posted links
read the mischief section (http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/C-46/181350.html#rid-181362)

basicly for property damage > &#036;5000 the maximum sentance is 10 yrs
other wise its just 2

religious property damage can be up to 10 yrs if the damage is motivated by bias.

spetzZz
03-20-2006, 09:30 PM
mods should sticky this. it&#39;s important shit that everyone should read, especially since the majority here is indeed below 18 years of age.

miz
03-25-2006, 11:04 AM
wowo thanks for those wise words this will help me alot if i ever get buster i even took little notes and key sentences thanks alot

mizta
03-25-2006, 11:41 AM
change your fucken name buddie

wanted 3- slave
03-27-2006, 08:17 AM
i got arested 2 weeks ago and the big fuck couldn&#39;t read what i was wriding and the other shit so i changed the words a bit and told him some shit story what i was writing and he belived me ........ if this story would faile and he could read it i was probaby thrown in jail coz the hole f** city is tagged with it

Wake126
03-27-2006, 04:35 PM
Hey im kind of new to this forum but i was wondering if you had any advice for someone who isint over 18 and is caught with markers paint etc in Canada.

Kingz514
03-31-2006, 11:14 PM
hm
not as easy as it sounds lol

any tips on what to do if theres a trustable witness
like the owner of the place you bombed saw you lol

GEST.
04-01-2006, 09:53 PM
Nicely writen .... Thank you

dark\gbk
04-01-2006, 10:43 PM
good thread i live in australia but i am sure some of those rules apply over here as well

Seek139
04-07-2006, 03:08 PM
someone should do an american one...

krgyet08
04-07-2006, 08:32 PM
wise words of wisdom my friend

Seek139
04-07-2006, 09:38 PM
cause not everyone lives in canada...(mister obvious)

anarchy
04-15-2006, 10:31 PM
or you can..... RUN&#33;

sabeSAHBEY
04-15-2006, 11:15 PM
nice shit thanks alot it was a good read

Crimeske
04-21-2006, 10:31 PM
probably the most useful post on BS ever.

Germ
04-21-2006, 10:51 PM
that was very good...that was well worth the read, thank you

Y-S
04-22-2006, 03:00 PM
good looks on this, much props, well written

exitdos
04-23-2006, 08:34 PM
Ok so my friend went into a store (WITH CAMERAS) and grabbed cans, and just walked out with them. The guy at the door stopped him, but he ran away. So anyways he has his picture on police records, and his face was possible seen on camera. He lives in a different town then the store he stole from. So what are his chances of being caught.

AoAssis
04-23-2006, 08:43 PM
splendid.

exitdos
04-23-2006, 09:50 PM
Come on, some real help.

k1ng
06-09-2006, 01:37 PM
fukin wkd gd help ill remeber it

Keffer
06-09-2006, 05:15 PM
k1ng, i rarely understand a fucking word you are saying. stop being lazy and type the WHOLE word&#33; :D

NAD_sat
06-14-2006, 11:37 PM
best and most in depth post on this i&#39;ve read thusfar.
it&#39;s definately good to know your rights and how to use them.
cheers.

blaike
06-15-2006, 12:42 AM
Originally posted by exitdos@Apr 23 2006, 09:50 PM
Ok so my friend went into a store (WITH CAMERAS) and grabbed cans, and just walked out with them. The guy at the door stopped him, but he ran away. So anyways he has his picture on police records, and his face was possible seen on camera. He lives in a different town then the store he stole from. So what are his chances of being caught.

how far does he live from the cityu that he stole the cans from?


good read. i dont think that &#39;touching for arrest&#39; applies in the US. probably yell out about sexual harassment.

Autopsy
06-15-2006, 09:14 AM
I heard from an american friend that if there are no signs that say "No acces" or "No tresspassing" or something like that, you aren&#39;t tresspassing until you are asked to leave and refuse. Is that true in Canada?

PS great read, the information here will probably serve me for the rest of my life&#33;

ILL
06-30-2006, 09:23 PM
i didnt know where to put this, but...if the cops "identify" someone but they will be dealt with at a later date, does that mean they&#39;v been arrested? or atleast know the cops know about them? or does that mean the cops are gonna bust them after the investigation?

ILL
06-30-2006, 09:57 PM
Originally posted by ILL@Jun 30 2006, 10:23 PM
i didnt know where to put this, but...if the cops "identify" someone but they will be dealt with at a later date, does that mean they&#39;v been arrested? or atleast know the cops know about them? or does that mean the cops are gonna bust them after the investigation?
im bumpin this, just cuz im kinda worryed the thing i read about what im talkin about mgiht be talkin about some people i know

trance
07-18-2006, 01:35 PM
STICKY THIS THREAD MODS


REALLY USEFUL

Special_K
07-18-2006, 05:17 PM
the damn governor in hawaii has some fucked priorities. instead of focusing on the meth problem shes trying to catch all of the writers. fuck a guy got fined 200&#036; for putting up a stickie on a sign.

Snax
07-27-2006, 03:10 PM
:unsure: hey i got a question, what about ur tag? ive gotten busted for 2 names a couple times, but have gotten smarter and more low key since i got out . I&#39;ve been wantin to hit the streets again but am still unsure as to wether to change my name entirely or what. I want to come back with my first name cause, not trying to sound pussy or soft but it has a lot of meaning behind it and memories for me, but also it would be sick gettin revenge and comin back with the Snax&#33; but i guess im jus askin can they come after you or even pin you later for the same name or if you changed letter style flip scrpt or what??... any suggestions

Lyrical Tampon
09-03-2006, 04:09 PM
what if your a minor??? dont you not have the same amount of rights and cant they search you for anything?

-kosr-
09-03-2006, 11:40 PM
^^Thats about the stupidist thing I have ever heard (If you mean can search you) Being a minor doesn&#39;t make you not human, as long as your human your rights apply to you.

Sentile
10-17-2006, 06:21 PM
Originally posted by bumsuckfun@Jan 10 2005, 12:41 AM


Before i get going, of course the formals:
- I am not condoning illegal graffiti writing.



i sure as hell am, but thanks alot

Sentile
10-17-2006, 06:23 PM
Originally posted by Special_K@Jul 18 2006, 05:17 PM
the damn governor in hawaii has some fucked priorities. instead of focusing on the meth problem shes trying to catch all of the writers. fuck a guy got fined 200&#036; for putting up a stickie on a sign.

oh shit i do slaps all the time :o

Statik
10-25-2006, 02:43 AM
Originally posted by Sentile+Oct 17 2006, 06:23 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Sentile @ Oct 17 2006, 06:23 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Special_K@Jul 18 2006, 05:17 PM
the damn governor in hawaii has some fucked priorities. instead of focusing on the meth problem shes trying to catch all of the writers. fuck a guy got fined 200&#036; for putting up a stickie on a sign.

oh shit i do slaps all the time :o [/b][/quote]
uh oh....
so do i...

CANADIANA
10-26-2006, 02:06 PM
good info

last summer the cops rolled on us wile we were geting blunted
searched all 3 of us and tookmy flowpen.they were going to keep it but i had used some of the advice mentioned in here and they gave it back...i ended up getting busted oonly for posession of a controlled substance (which isnt tooooo bad, but still sucks) so i got 10 hrs comunity service but im doing a commision wall and i convinced my (for lack of better word) probation officer to let it count........fuck i love canada

'aSHiD"
10-26-2006, 02:09 PM
got caught bombin trains in ohio.... &#036;244 to clean my record.

train cops suck&#33;&#33;&#33;

CANADIANA
10-26-2006, 02:17 PM
oh since alot of you guys are under 18, nows the time to be bombing hard, its once your 18+ when you can start getting fucked really hard.

and im going to leave you with a quote from a guy on Lounge37:

cops are like the ghosts in mario, they only get you when you have your backs turned to them for too long. Show them your back, and they&#39;ll bend you over and fuck you in the ass

dajam410
12-18-2006, 11:54 AM
Originally posted by bumsuckfun@Jan 10 2005, 12:41 AM
i came back to the bombingscience forum for the first time in over a year and wrote this article... enjoy...


Before i get going, of course the formals:
- I am not condoning illegal graffiti writing.
- I am not condoning evading legal action or misleading police.
- I am promoting knowledge, and the right to know your own rights and freedoms.
- The following is for educational purposes only.
- The information is, as to the best of my knowledge, accurate. But no guarantees...

//START

If your a Canadian writer it can sometimes be hard to find information regarding to dealing with police situations. It appears as though most information found on sites relating to writing were written with the United States laws in mind (although these are similar to Canada and are worth the read), or in the rare case European laws.... but for whatever reason, information for Canadians doesn&#39;t seem to be entering these sites/forums. So here I am writing out a general guide for Canada (it is usually good idea to check local laws since provincial or municipal laws may vary, although those laws usually only affect punishment if you are found guilty). Keep in mind this guide was written with people over the legal age (18) in mind. Also keep in mind this is not a guide for running from the police, or any other illegal activities for evading the police. You can choose to use those at your own discretion depending on the situation. This is the all legal (no running, no lying, but lots of clever wording) way of keeping yourself out of shit creek.

BEING SEARCHED AND/OR HAVING ITEMS CONFISCATED :
Typically if police ask if they can search you then it&#39;s a sign you might not be as screwed over as you&#39;d think you&#39;d be. If police have probable cause to search you, or have a search warrant then they wouldn&#39;t need to ask you, they&#39;d straight up tell you "I&#39;m going to search you" or whatever. So if they ask, reply with something a long the lines of "No, I do not give you consent to search me." Remember that when dealing with the police always be polite and friendly. Being hostile, angry, or even being a smart ass can work against you. You&#39;ve got to make yourself sound educated and let them know that you are aware of your legal rights and freedoms, but don&#39;t let yourself sound sarcastic or like a smart ass, so sound friendly, polite, and as cooperative as you can while still upholding your rights and freedoms in order to cover your ass. If they begin searching without asking, remember to tell them (clearly) that you do not consent to the search of yourself or your belongings. If they give you a response like "it doesn&#39;t matter" or "I&#39;m going to search you anyway" tell them that this is unlawful and anything found under and unlawful search cannot be used in court. As the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms says "Everyone has the right to be secure against unreasonable search or seizure."
Now let&#39;s say the police have probable cause. Probable cause can include the smell of marijuana/alcohol/etc, having clearly seen you deface property, obvious intoxication (you look/act drunk or high), etc. If an officer doesn&#39;t say anything and begins searching clearly remind them that you DO NOT give consent to be searched or to have your belongings searched. This is when they would mention probable cause (or a warrant) if they have it. Make sure the officer clearly states what probably cause he/she has, and what they are looking for. If probable cause is the smell of marijuana, then make sure they state that they are searching for marijuana. If and when they find paint/markers/etc on you, this is the same as an unlawful search, as none of those items can be used against you. This is why it&#39;s very important to make sure you know under what cause they are searching you and what they are searching for. Now to be honest, I believe that probable cause is in the discretion of the officer (another reason why being friendly/polite and as cooperative as possible is good), so that means I can&#39;t be positive if the police would consider paint on your hands/clothes or rattling cans in your schoolbag as probably cause (although being scene commit the crime is probable cause). However as far as I know, having paint on your hands/clothes is not illegal, and neither is the possession of spray paint or markers if you are over the age of 18. None the less, if you can silence your cans (I hear powerful magnets applied to the base work), wear gloves, and roll up your sleeves, it probably wouldn&#39;t hurt. Try to avoid getting paint on your shoes either. But in this case if they say they have probable cause because of cans rattling, etc, then it probably wouldn&#39;t hurt to state "I have nothing illegal in my possession and do not give consent for me or my belongings to be searched." Although the must state what they are searching for, it&#39;s probably a good idea to leave other illegal objects at home, such as drugs, alcohol (especially if open and/or if underage), weapons, etc. It also doesn&#39;t hurt to leave anything that may be incriminating (sketchbooks, etc.) at home while on missions as well. If they do search you and find spray paint, thats as incriminating as you&#39;d want to be, no need to add salt to the wound.
Warrants is very similar to probable cause, as in the warrant is to search for a specific item. So if they have a warrant for drugs, and find paint, there is no need to get overly worried.
In general searches are not a big deal, as you can probably get off without being searched, and even if they do, all they&#39;ve done is found spray paint and/or markers. This is somewhat suspicious, but not illegal, so don&#39;t incriminate yourself by admitting to have done any illegal activities with the paint/markers. If they ask if you have done anything illegal with them, you can choose to lie (if proven wrong, this could hurt you), or you could choose not to answer. The only information you are required to give to police is your name, address, and date of birth (probably shouldn&#39;t lie when giving out that information either, this can get you in even deeper shit, as giving false identification is an offense). If they give you an open-ended question like "what have you used these for" you can answer also very broadly with a response like "painting." If they ask what you were painting, time to shut your mouth and refuse to answer again. Of course, if you wanted to get real technical you could spray a little bit of paint onto a wall in your bedroom, and old bicycle, anything, and if they ask what you painted you could say "I have used this to paint a wall in my room" or "I have used this to paint my bicycle", etc. Of course, saying you ONLY used it to paint a wall/bicycle would be lying. Don&#39;t lie if you can give answers like those listed above. Notice how it says "I have used this to paint a wall in my room," and not "I have ONLY used this to paint a wall in my room." If asked why you have them in your schoolbag at such an obscure hour, you could reply that you placed them in there earlier and haven&#39;t dropped them off at home yet. This would technically be true, since you did place them in your bag earlier, and haven&#39;t dropped them off at home yet...
UPDATE (Sept 1 / 2005): A (popular) example of police trying to trick you into letting them having items in your possession that they can not legally confiscate is to ask you "If you were me, would you take the paint?". Basically this is them ASKING for LEGAL PERMISSION to take your paint away from you, but they try to word it otherwise. The best way to answer this is to say that spraypaint isn&#39;t illegal and that you&#39;d like to keep your possessions. Don&#39;t play along with the whole &#39;if you were me&#39; game, it&#39;s all a bunch of bullshit, they&#39;re just trying to get you to answer in a way that gives them the permission they need. If they could just take your paint, they would, without asking.




CAUGHT WHILE PAINTING:
Okay, let&#39;s say your painting a piece, you goto pick up a different can, you stand back for a second, anything, and the police come over. It seems pretty bad because here you are with your paint covered gloves, a can in your hand, and fresh paint on the wall, but you DO have one thing going for you, and that is that the police did not clearly see you painting the wall (this is a good idea to move all paint, and yourself, far from the wall if you hear footsteps, voices, or other strange sounds, until you investigate them). Basically that means they&#39;ll ask "did you just paint that wall?". Be careful to questions like that, and also be very aware that they probably won&#39;t word it as outright as that. They will probably make it seem as though they are making a statement rather than asking, or make it seem like they already know that you were. Just remember, if they did see you paint the wall for sure, they would not need you to say that you did. Don&#39;t get tricked into confessing without realizing it. However, that question may be risky and you are really only given 3 options. To say yes (bad idea), to deny or to simply keep your mouth shut (after all, the only information you need to give is your name/address/DOB). Let&#39;s say you deny, make up some lame lie like you saw the cans on the ground while walking by and were going to take them home with you for whatever reason. If they didn&#39;t see you painting, it may work, but its a long shot. If they did see you painting or otherwise prove your lying then you&#39;ll be in deeper shit just for lying. Now clearly not responding or stating &#39;I am not required by law to answer that question&#39; will seem somewhat out of place as well. Perhaps the best way to not-answer that question is to reply asking "Are you detaining me?." If the answer is yes, ask under what grounds. If the answer is no, ask "am I free to go?" (perhaps best worded more naturally, "I should be getting home, am I free to go?". If they reply that you are not allowed to leave, then state "you just said I am not being detained, so I am free to go?". Not being free to go is in sense being detained. If the officer responds that you are being detained, ask under what cause. Chances are you already know the answer to this question. The next logical question I can think to ask after this (keep in mind you haven&#39;t admitted to painting the wall yet, you lead them off with a trail of questions) would be "am I under arrest?" If the answer is no, then repeat the process of questions about being detained, and being free to go. If the police ask you to goto the station with you (but haven&#39;t officially arrested you) than that is considered arbitrary detention, and you do not have to comply with it. Basically, to make things simpler, the only information you MUST give the police is your name, address, and date of birth. After this, the police have two options, to arrest you or to let you free. If you didn&#39;t let yourself get tricked into confessing your making yourself any more suspicious, then it MIGHT be hard for the police to lawfully arrest you, so there is a VERY SLIM possibility you will go free. If you are under arrest, there is 4 things that the officer must officially do. Make sure you pay VERY CLOSE ATTENTION to this because if they don&#39;t do one of the steps you may be able to have your case thrown out. The 4 things are:

1) Say who they are and show identification (in other words, show you their badge, etc.).
2) Tell you they are arresting you, explain why they are arresting you, and make sure that you understand why they are arresting you.
3) Touch you in a non-harmful way as an indication that you are officially under arrest.
4) They have to tell you that you have the right to call a lawyer and that you can remain silent.

Number 2 is an interesting one. If they did not see you clearly painting, and you didn&#39;t give yourself up on it, then if they say they are arresting you for painting the wall you can tell them that you don&#39;t UNDERSTAND (key word) why they are arresting you if they did not see you paint the wall. Either way they can probably argue they have enough evidence against you, but get them to point out that evidence. If they say you had spray paint, tell them that it is not illegal to have possession of spray paint and that you haven&#39;t had a chance to drop it off at home yet, etc. In other words, bring up points stating that you do not UNDERSTAND why you are under arrest if the officer did not clearly see you commit the crime. Remember to stay polite and friendly, yet sound knowledgeable, and make sure you are clearly stating you don&#39;t understand you are being arrested. If you are lucky enough, you may get off scot-free, you may be issued a warning or a caution, or something along those lines. But there is a good chance you will end up under arrest anyway.
Number 3 can also be interesting, and worth paying attention to. If the officer makes a movement as if they are going to touch you make a statement along the lines of "I do not give consent to be touched." Chances are, this won&#39;t work, but if you sounded knowledgeable talking to the officer before they may think you are a law buff and being afraid of causing trouble for themselves, they might not touch you. Excellent. Don&#39;t make a big deal of the fact they didn&#39;t touch you until you are talking to your lawyer, hopefully your lawyer can make a big deal out of this and get your case thrown out... it&#39;s a long shot, but if you can remember this it might just save your ass.
Number 4 is in the same boat as Number 3. Make sure they say it, and if they don&#39;t, don&#39;t remind them that they didn&#39;t. Leave this little detail for when you&#39;re talking to your lawyer. Speaking of which, whether they said it or not, it&#39;s good advice to remain silent and to call your lawyer. Keep in mind that according to the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms you are allowed privacy with your lawyer. Anyway, details aside, things didn&#39;t work out and you ended up arrested... more information in the &#39;You&#39;ve Been Officially Arrested&#39; Section.




YOU&#39;VE BEEN OFFICIALLY ARRESTED:
First thing to note is that this said you&#39;ve been OFFICIALLY arrested, referring to that the police used all 4 things required to officially arrest you, and that you were clearly seen painting the wall. There isn&#39;t much you can do to get out of being busted for that one wall, so this section is dedicated to keeping yourself out of even more shit once arrested. Assuming that you have been busted for that one piece they caught you painting, one thing they&#39;re very likely to do, is to try to get you to confess to other graffiti. Usually they&#39;ll do this by matching tag names, and there is a chance they&#39;ll even have photos of other graffiti you&#39;ve done, and maybe even some that you haven&#39;t. So what do you do? Simple, don&#39;t admit to have done that other graffiti. I&#39;m not saying you lie and give them a straight up no, just be calm and careful with your wording. They&#39;ll probably try to say something like "we know you did it. it&#39;s obvious, the signature looks exactly the same, blah blah blah". You don&#39;t admit to doing it, no matter what. Try to avoid lying to. The best thing if they say something along those lines would probably be "No, you don&#39;t." Now you may be thinking, I thought you said &#39;don&#39;t lie&#39;, and you&#39;re right. Saying "No, you don&#39;t" is you saying that the police don&#39;t know you did that other work. Its careful wording that works in a way to try to deny you from having done the other graffiti, and also undermines the police knowledge on it. Just think of it this way, how many times have you seen SLAYER or METALLICA or AC/DC written in public in the exact same style letters. If the police catch one person writing SLAYER he can&#39;t truly be blamed for everyone else who has written it exactly the same. So, don&#39;t admit to having done those other tags. If they ask why they are exactly the same say you aren&#39;t sure why it is, or that maybe you think some other kids have decided to write it too. Using the SLAYER/METALLICA/ACDC reference is something you should tell your lawyer, but not the police, perhaps he could use it in court for your defense. Let all the incrimination against you happen in the court. By letting the police no as little as possible you are able to keep them from building a case. At the same time, you are learning how they work and what they know, letting you and your lawyer build up a case. You may get busted for that one piece you got painted but they sure as hell don&#39;t have concrete evidence you painted/tagged anything else if you use these tactics. If the police continue to persist that they KNOW you did it, ask how they know you did it, etc. Reverse the tables and find out what they know and discuss with your lawyer. You can undermine them and build your case up while they learn nothing from you. Once again, I cannot stress how important it is you don&#39;t let the police know what you know, or even your tactics. This will give them something to build a case up against you. I almost forgot a very important thing, and that is what if the police outright ask you "Did you do those other tags?" A good answer would be "I cannot be responsible for what any other teenagers/kids do with spraypaint/markers/whatever." You are not lying, but you do slide the blame away from you while exploiting just how weak of a case the police have against you. The police will make it seem like they have a huge case against you, with tonnes of evidence. If they tell you scary accurate details about what you were wearing while painting another piece, or anything along those lines, reply again "I cannot be responsible for what other people do, even if it is similar to what you have accused me of doing." In the case of clothes, lets say they say you were wearing jeans and black nike hoody say "I can&#39;t be responsible for what everybody in jeans and a nike hoody has done." Again, slides the blame away without lying. Remember to be very careful not to say something like "I can&#39;t be responsible for anything anybody has done that is similar to what I had done." While it may seem like you slid the blame away, you also admitted to the crime you were arrested for. Bad idea. Even though you are probably going to get in shit for it anyway, and this section assumes you are and is about avoiding more shit, just keep in mind it&#39;s not over until the fat lady sings. Never admit, let the judge decide if the police have enough against you. If the police ever tell you that they even have pictures or video of you doing graffiti, ask to see it. Don&#39;t admit, don&#39;t deny or lie. Just say something like "well, I&#39;m not sure how that could be, do you mind if I look at these supposed pictures/video?". Once again, be careful with wording. Do not say something like "well that&#39;d be interesting to see," even though it&#39;s not admitting to it, it could be used against you as you aren&#39;t denying that it exists. If the photos/videos do exist, there is no proof that it is you unless there are super clear facial shots or anything of the like either. So don&#39;t fret too much. If you wear a mask in the first place, then even less to worry about. Basically, if you aren&#39;t able to come up with clever non-lying denials for what they ask, don&#39;t answer. Say you feel uncomfortable and don&#39;t want to answer, or anything along those lines, or simply say nothing at all. Because if you aren&#39;t careful and speak you can do more harm than good without even realizing it.
Another thing to keep in mind, be prepared to do some embarrassing things. If you are being interrogated they may use bathroom breaks as a way to get you to confess. This means they may have water on the table, and over time you may feel the urge to piss. While not moral they may say they can only let you use the bathroom if you confess. NEVER CONFESS. PISS YOUR PANTS BEFORE YOU CONFESS. I&#39;m serious, I&#39;d rather pee my pants right there and get it out of me, then to confess to things. Remember, interrogation cannot go on forever. If it goes on for what seems like too long, ask to speak to your lawyer in privacy. At the very least it&#39;ll give you a break, he can give you some tips, and you can make sure the police at the very least are conducting legal interrogation. Never sell yourself short, let the judge decide if you did what you are being accused of, no matter how much things stack against you. Also remember that police are not in charge of &#39;cutting you deals&#39;. Offering less sentence time for ratting on somebody else, etc. Sentencing is upto the judge and can&#39;t be determined until you are charged with the crime (judge finds you guilty). In other words, they may say you&#39;ll get a less of a sentence if you rat somebody out, but how would the police know this if you haven&#39;t be charged or even sentenced yet. If, however, you are charged and sentenced by the judge (God forbid), then they may try to cut your sentence for real. Just remember, no matter what, NO RATTING. You know all the shit you&#39;ve been through, don&#39;t make it harsh for anyone else. When and if you are sentenced, try to see if you can get into a deversion program, or perhaps community service in exchange for lesser fines and/or lesser to no jail time (if it&#39;s that serious). No matter how little the sentencing, check the alternatives out...



YOU&#39;VE BEEN RATTED OUT:
Being ratted out is the same as the previous section on being arrested, except they didn&#39;t even catch you painting in the first place. Follow the same guidelines as the previous section on being arrested and hopefully everything works out fine. Chances are they can&#39;t prove anything unless you pretty much (and possibly inadvertedly) told them what they needed to hear. Word cleverly and surely when you can, and when you can&#39;t, say nothing at all. Basically somebody said that you do graffiti, and what you write, but they didn&#39;t list any specific places or times or places you did graffiti. A person could be a witness in court and say that you write &#39;whatever&#39; but since the person didn&#39;t witness you actually do the graffiti it doesn&#39;t help the case against you much... However, the police will try to use this information to question you more, and try to get you to talk. If you&#39;ve been ratted on and the police ask you to go down to the station for questioning, it&#39;s probably best to politely refuse. If after someone rats on you, the police show up and arrest you, it&#39;s best to remain silent.
Now in the case that the person who ratted on you also gives a specific time/location that he witnessed you vandalise property... well, I think in this case say NOTHING to the police, talk only to your lawyer.


HOUSE SEARCHES:
The police show up at your house with a search warrant. Check the warrant and see what it&#39;s for. Check to see what they are allowed to seize according to the search. Ask the police officers for their names and badge numbers. If the warrant is for drugs and they find paint, sketches, markers, whatever, then they can&#39;t seize that or use it against you. Seizing it or using it against you would be unlawful. If they do have a warrant for graffiti stuff, and find it, what they have no is evidence against you, but possibly not proof. It&#39;s not illegal to be in possession of those items, so you can&#39;t be arrested or charged for that. As in the previous two sections, just don&#39;t let it work against you, and don&#39;t let yourself work against you. If they find sketches, there is no proof to say that you didn&#39;t draw what you saw on the street. Drawing what you saw on the street is not illegal. Proving that because you have something on paper that you painted it on a wall can be a tough sell if you don&#39;t confess or inadvertedly tell them what they need to hear. Try wording it in such ways that don&#39;t indicate whether the sketch was drawn before or after the piece was painted. Once again, know how to be quiet, or use the Ronald Reagan "I Don&#39;t Recall" answer to questions that would be hard to answer without directly lying.

The Lie Detector:
Lie Detector (Polygraph) use is becoming more and more common, as the cost of polygraphs goes lower. Now, the first thing to keep in mind, and this is VERY IMPORTANT, is that in most (or all?) cases, you DO NOT have to take the lie detector test. The police may once again try to trick you into taking it, perhaps by telling you that by taking it you can &#39;clear your name right now&#39;. Again, REFUSE to take the test, just say you&#39;d rather be on your way or whatever, just don&#39;t take the test. In a case where the police try to make you take a lie detector test, consult with a lawyer first, seeing as how I don&#39;t think the police have a right to make you take a polygraph, but I&#39;m not a lawyer, so it&#39;s best to check with one. I highly recommend going to http://www.antipolygraph.org and reading what they have, not only about how the lie detector is unreliable and had a low accuracy rate, how the lie detector is based off tricking the person taking it (you), and tips for beating a lie detector in the case that you HAVE to take one. It is not a bad or wrong thing to do, to refuse to take a lie detector test, and they can&#39;t use it against you in any sort&#39;ve way, the very same way they can&#39;t use you refusing to let them search you to make you seem more suspect.

GENERAL TIPS:
- Wear gloves and roll up your sleeves. Keep the paint off your hands and clothes.
- Wear a mask. It&#39;ll keep your pretty face from unknowingly being photographed or videotaped. Plus if it&#39;s a respirator it&#39;ll keep your lungs nice and safe.
- Be aware of the environment around you while painting, as well as noises such as a car pulling up and stopping, somebody walking close by, etc, etc. When these happen, remove yourself and paint from the immediate area of the wall and investigate what&#39;s up.
- Don&#39;t leave cans at the crime scene. Finger printing is getting fairly cheap and practical for the police to use, and if they think they can bust you for other graffiti they wouldn&#39;t be against checking prints. At the same time, nobody is to say that just because you touched some cans, you actually did graffiti. Anybody can walk by a public place, see cans, pick them up to see what they are, and put them back down on the ground. Again, police will try to trick you if they have your prints... don&#39;t be fooled.
- When talking to police be calm, confident, knowledgeable, polite and friendly. Be as cooperative as possible without the risk of incriminating yourself... unless you&#39;re put under arrest, then remain silent, and only talk to your lawyer. ONLY YOUR LAWYER. (If you don&#39;t have one, say nothing anyway. Just keep saying nothing. Try to get a lawyer... and in the meantime, say nothing to the police.)
- KNOW YOUR RIGHTS. Read this over a few times, read the Canada Charter of Rights and Freedoms.
- Check these relevant links: http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/charter/ & http://www.settlement.org/sys/faqs_detail....&faq_id=4000360 (http://www.settlement.org/sys/faqs_detail.asp?passed_lang=EN&faq_id=4000360) & http://www.antipolygraph.org/
- If you are being charged with vandalism to business/private property, talk to the owners and see if you can&#39;t somehow get the charges dropped. Even so, try not to admit. Just say it isn&#39;t worth the hassle of the court system if you could simply clean it off.
- Lawyer fees are better to pay then legal fees, fines, and a record.
- You have to remember that legal thinking and logical thinking are two VERY different things. If the police present enough evidence where any sane person would easily assume you did it, you might not be caught. The legal system thinks very different. So don&#39;t let them stack evidence against you and tell you it&#39;s obvious you&#39;re caught. If this was true, they woudn&#39;t be needing you to say anything or sign anything.
- DON&#39;T SIGN ANYTHING.
- You are innocent until proven guilty. This is why you don&#39;t have to deny things, you merely don&#39;t have to let yourself get tricked into admitting them.

ALWAYS REMEMBER:
The police, if charging you with a crime, don&#39;t need to talk to you at all... so when they&#39;re talking to you, they&#39;re only trying to get you to incriminate yourself. If they need to ask you to do something, they don&#39;t have the right to do it, or else they would&#39;ve done it without asking... so whenver they ask you if they can do anything, take anything, get you to do anything, etc.... just refuse. And if you&#39;re already under arrest, it&#39;s probably best not to talk to them at all...
Huge bump. This is one of the only threads in the TOLLS/TIPS section that is important to know, and will definitely help out everyone in the long run.

snap_pxc
12-21-2006, 08:50 AM
^word

sir.holland
04-10-2007, 08:12 PM
siiiick post. thnks alot i will remember these things in the future.

EGO31
04-11-2007, 12:06 AM
Originally posted by CANADIANA@Oct 26 2006, 02:06 PM
good info

last summer the cops rolled on us wile we were geting blunted
searched all 3 of us and tookmy flowpen.they were going to keep it but i had used some of the advice mentioned in here and they gave it back...i ended up getting busted oonly for posession of a controlled substance (which isnt tooooo bad, but still sucks) so i got 10 hrs comunity service but im doing a commision wall and i convinced my (for lack of better word) probation officer to let it count........fuck i love canada
I&#39;d rather be busted for having a marker than for drugs,
maybe i&#39;m just strange.....

HaLo_07
04-14-2007, 02:09 PM
Ya, I&#39;m glad I see this post.
It helps allot, I get my lil bro to read up on this cause around where I live, the police are really nothing but pest to people young and old.

But thats how life is around here for now I guess.

Stay Up.

sabe2
04-14-2007, 08:30 PM
there is train cops never seen them wehn i bomb trains i think train are low heat

CHUB
04-15-2007, 11:44 PM
theres a pretty tight guide this dude on BS made in the how to reduce the risk of getting cought, idk if its by the same guy but yeah

but i have a question

i saw that the thing for this post was for canadian writers, how much different is the law in canada bout tagging is then from the US law? i mean do u still get the same punishments and rights and all that

afek
06-22-2007, 09:39 AM
bump

spinthespin
07-12-2007, 12:25 PM
bumsuckfun thanks for helping out everyone here on bombingscience but if i where u i wouldn’t be taking credit for all that information and would be telling everyone where you got it all, or any other recourses that may help us. Anyways heres some websites.


http://www.flexyourrights.org/street_stop_scenario
http://flexyourrights.org/
http://www.totse.com/en/society/index.html
http://www.msxnet.org/humour/terror_alert
http://img312.imageshack.us/img312/5480/it3xv.jpghave fun.

Atom1er
07-16-2007, 03:06 AM
I'd rather be busted for having a marker than for drugs,
maybe i'm just strange.....

lol same here bro
they wont do shit if i have a magnum or a zig cept take it
if i got busted with half an ounce of purple
gah
abunch of my friends have been getting busted for that shit
EVEN MY BROTHER GOT CAUGHT
they fuck you over for that down here
they dont do shit if you have a marker on you
cept take it and throw it in a garbage can 5 feet away from you....

harry
07-23-2007, 05:04 AM
thanks heaps that info is so good even though i live in oz im pretty sure most of that stuff would work here as well

Sick!
07-23-2007, 09:41 PM
plead the first ammendment!
wont help much but hey, its on the fuckin constitution right?

b-townbomb
07-25-2007, 09:24 PM
That was a very good post man, nice work. And Gesus about that america pride bullshit, your innocent until proven guilty in us blah blah whoof whoof, what about david hicks? A suppossed 'terrorist' that has been held in guantanamo bay by the U.S for over 3 years without any trial and being denied any contact with his lawyer? And that isan't the only person being held there under investication for 'terrorist activity' and being a threat to o' holy america :rolleyes:. So whats up with your great laws now? Oh yeah i forgot about the unwritten law in your piss weak constitution 'Innocent until proven guilty, unless of course your a muslim and have a beard.' So thats why he's being held! Of course, God bless America, but then whens the last time you have heard fiji say 'god bless Fiji' or Zimbabwe say ' God bless Zimbabwe '? Frankly If god was to show any favouritism to any country ( which he ain't cause in my view he don't exsist ) the U S of A would be down the bottom of the list, way down. This is not a peronal attack on you, i have many good amrican friends, i just hate the Bush administration and all you other right wing bastards.
left side is where its at!!!

Steez
11-07-2007, 03:19 AM
a good fuckin' read.

I got searched a while ago.. after my buddies finished painting a wall, 1 of them supplying the paint pulled dick, and decided to bounce on his own. So me n 2 of my buddys were heading to my car. It was cuttin close to work time for me, so I told'em to hurry up. We started all running retardedly to my car parked in a lot, and as I was getting in, I saw a car at a stop sign pass by at the corner of my eye. I got inside, turned on my car. I see the car pull up somewhere, and reverse back the way it came. turned on a street, and pulled into the lot, and parked RIGHT behind me. I was thinking, "Who the hells this fucker???". And then they turned on their lights. one cop got out of the car, asked me if he could see my hands, asked my buddies if they could see their hands. Asked what we were doing, giving bullshit excuses. And throughout the conversation, he must've asked to see all of our hands like 5 times. Finally, he told me to step out.. he ended up emptying out my pockets, patted me down... told my buddies to get out... did the same to them. By that time, the second cop in the car came out and just went to town on my car. They started searching everywhere as if they were about to find anything. All the while, there was zero consent for any of it. I don't know what the hell I was thinking, I guess I wasn't. But I should've said something.