Is Graffiti Art? [Archive] - Bombing Science: Graffiti Forums

LOSTxTHExFAITH

01-25-2005, 03:02 PM

Well... TODAY, this day in age, graffiti can easily be passed off as an art. I think a lot of people, shit even the majority of writers find graffiti being the stepping stone away from structural art. Meaning self expressing that is in the hands of someone else's discretion like an "Art" teacher or professor. The act it's self is vandalism. But I much rather be labeled an artist then a vandal... Vandal is a term that comes with tons of stigmas society as a whole asserts upon. The point of graffiti, atleast for me is that it can still hold the integrity of being an art form. Just because it's not on a canvass, or hanging in a museum doesn't mean it should be hectored by outsiders as being vandalism. I guess a lot of what your question boils down to is which part of graffiti to you delegate most of you ambition and focus into. Bombing... Or piecing. Ideally a person should be balance out both. Shit man.. It's kind of a double bladed sword. It's like okay, on one hand. You bomb for expectancy for those like yourself. But strong piecers often by use of "legal" walls these days, use them to depict to the public, it is in art.. What person can really walk by a wild style burner downtown and not acknowledge it. You almost need to know in some deep seated part of your mind that, what your doing is an art, despite how out of context one takes what you were originally trying to convey and distorts it. I mean you wouldn't stand for 7 or 8 hours in one place after you did a bomb... But when you piece you do... I think the self appreciation aspect of completing a piece, or rather in turn emptying 20 cans out bombing for hours on in one night runs in the same vain. It's the same feeling of accomplishment. So I can't really say slandering bombers for just "bombing" and not really ever developing any skills outside of a repetitive bubble letter as being wack. Some people have revolved their graffiti career around solely bombing. And it worked for their benefit. Others, just strong pieces to define their time spent in graffiti. I think graffiti is one of the few aspects of life that is deminishing lately that is completely man/woman made. A person could paint a master piece on canvass, sell it for x amonut of money. And then it's whored on key chains in thumb nail renditions. Is that "art", it's excepted by the public with not question. So it's evidently not vandalism. I think assuming the name "vandal" is only plaguing the graffiti movement as a whole. Although it's an attractive life style to a lot of heads coming up. I think the more work produced by "graffiti artist" and "graffiti bombers" world wide will one day not need to plead for expectancy.. But this could either be benifit or the down fall of graffiti as a whole. You don't want graffiti being mass produced on key chains as accesories for people. The day that happens I'll resign. Your asking the question is graffiti vandalism or art. It's def. an art. The "art" of it all is in the preliminary action in doing graffiti not necessarily the remains left. It's a different type of art. One that isn't for the faint of heart by anymeans. As I've said in the past.. "Some people coincide with the phrase of actions speaking louder then words, but imagine a world filled with people who's actions spoke loud words..." It the ART of writing. It's like what William Shakespeare once said in a sonnet I remember, "Thy sweet love remembered, such wealth brings.. That then I scorn to change my state with KINGS.." Graffiti is like a disease in your veins. You begin to neglect other art's or murals.. Nothing really impresses you outside of letters done with spray cans. Which is sad to say the least. Especially if your taking the approach from an artist stand point. Cause theirs no real initiative behind the driving force. I guess some people get hype when they see their shit on t.v. and labeled "vandal", I've made the news countless times. And it's not all it's said to be. Being associated with gang activity and then toped off with vandal stifles my motivation to keep producing work. Either way, there will never be another visual art as pure as the act of graffiti.

R.I.P J.Carson.

GeSuS_KRiST

01-25-2005, 03:03 PM

Originally posted by oblong@Jan 25 2005, 03:54 PM
personally i love destroying city property and other things in my city its just fun and gets me away from the rest of my life
i couldnt of said it ANY better liek i said dont get me wrong im out bombing atleast 4 days out of the week... im just tryin to get a lil convo goin here and prove to all the toys who keep on say graffiti is art and not vandlism that they dont know what the fuck there talkin about

and kaynine i agree with u im all about chill spots but not legals

:edit:

rebus homie, that was a mind full im glad someone finally put some real shit into what they said.. i was hopinh u and some of the other older writers would throw in some words

Havoc411

01-25-2005, 03:08 PM

i voted no because because i really only think really elaborate piecies and murals are art in the graffiti world. but bombd and throws arent art in my opinion

tre'tre'

01-25-2005, 03:11 PM

i will post my opinion when im not drunk

later tonight maybe

THEPOSTWHORE5000

01-25-2005, 03:14 PM

makes things look more interesting...have you ever turned your head twice for a blank wall? i dont think so. have you ever turned your head for a freshly put up throwie by one of the big writers around you? i guarentee it. it puts color into things, makes them look more interesting, and makes shit beautiful..hey gesus you've talked about how toys put there shitty ass stuff up and it gets annoying n stuff right? (everyone has), well if your all about destruction and getting up, then why is their shit so bad? what makes your stuff better? is it more *artistic*? yes.

Havoc411

01-25-2005, 03:16 PM

panic?

GeSuS_KRiST

01-25-2005, 03:22 PM

Originally posted by THEPOSTWHORE5000@Jan 25 2005, 04:14 PM
makes things look more interesting...have you ever turned your head twice for a black wall? i dont think so. have you ever turned your head for a freshly put up throwie by one of the big writers around you? i guarentee it. it puts color into things, makes them look more interesting, and makes shit beautiful..hey gesus you've talked about how toys put there shitty ass stuff up and it gets annoying n stuff right? (everyone has), well if your all about destruction and getting up, then why is their shit so bad? what makes your stuff better? is it more *artistic*? yes.
well first off i been bombing for 5 years and i think theres a big diffrence between me and a bunch of toys.... or atleast i would hope.... my shit doesnt look as bad and a bunch of random stiight and diagnal (sp) lines and make up a name that u cant even read.... do u agree?

and also yea i turn my head twice fuck even about 8 times when i see a black wall cas its rare when u see them and all i can think it and a perfect background that ouls be for a pink green,yellow or pink toss.....

as for the turning your head for a new toss or burner yea i do it but thats because i DO graffiti u think someone in a car is goin to notice that shit fuck no... you cant see and your not looking for.. graffiti artist we look for other graffiti i cdont even know how time times ive almost crashed by lookin at graffiti and not the road, but i know that people dont notice new tosses and everything else cas it all looks the same to them... i have even been asked by my mom how do u notice all that stuff and i respond with cas im looking for it

pSYKAOz

01-25-2005, 03:53 PM

vandalizing with art.

i spend hours perfecting my tags even. for me they are art... line art... but art none the less... a tag that flows n a tag thats toy... what the difference? skills. artistic ability.

Blacaso

01-25-2005, 03:56 PM

Graffiti is expression of self though art

_____JEKLROKS_____

01-25-2005, 03:58 PM

Fuck being a artist I'm a vandal... I think it started off as vandalism thing with simple tags and shit and people just used artistic influence to create it more their own, but in the eyes of law, its still vandalism, for it to be a artform it'd have to be on fucking canvas and shit which is wack because it was'ent meant to be seen or apreciated by snooty art sluts, its supposed to be a way of getting your name known.

atxbomber666

01-25-2005, 04:12 PM

i said no because i meen like 90% of the graffiti you see isnt legal,and i meen throws and tags have certain artistic elements but i meen art is like peicing which is legal.so basically the only art is the legal shit,and you dont see much of that.

Kaynine

01-25-2005, 04:25 PM

Originally posted by atxbomber666@Jan 25 2005, 05:12 PM
i said no because i meen like 90% of the graffiti you see isnt legal,and i meen throws and tags have certain artistic elements but i meen art is like peicing which is legal.so basically the only art is the legal shit,and you dont see much of that.
Im feelin what he had to say and I do see that most throws and shit may not be art and that piecing dose use elements from art, So now i understand where GeSuS is coin from because most of tha time all i see is small shit like throw ups and tags not to many pieces so i guess there is more of a vandalism quality

The Most Sadistic

01-25-2005, 04:32 PM

i depends graffiti is to brod (duno how to spell)

tags, throwies, bombs arnt art... they are vandalism ... and also my favorite part of graffiti cuz its the funnest part

piecing is art on paper / canvas / walls because you actually spend time on it

The Most Sadistic

01-25-2005, 04:33 PM

but yea i voted no because im a bomber

Coo

01-25-2005, 04:34 PM

Idk why graf is art but then again why is a peice of paper with paint splattered all over it art...(refuring to something i once saw in an art mus.)

Art washes away from the soul the dust of everyday life. - Pablo Picasso

ILL

01-25-2005, 04:35 PM

i think if it's a good tag,piece, or bomb it's like art cuz you like looking at it and unless you do it on a legal wall it is vandalizim. When i see something where some ones doing graffiti to be "bad" like spray painting "Fuck" on a wall i don't look at it like i would if it was a dope tag, piece or bomb cuz it dosn't look good cuz it has no style or anything they just do it to be "Bad" and even when i look at a tag i did a little while ago whin i first started and it's shity i don't like it cuz even tho its a tag it dosen't look good. I do graffiti cuz i like doin it , i like seein it and i do like tha "invisable fame" .

Live4TheWall

01-25-2005, 04:37 PM

Glad to see you feel so stongly on this one Gesus. Like I said before I think its an art because its developed completely by the artist. Anyone can go out and scratch up a window or spray some walls but what you and many other people on this website do is art. You spent time on making it look good so you can repeat it time and time again (handstyles) and then you spend sometimes hours on ends coming up with a new piece to put up. I say we begin as vandals and evolve into artists when we are no longer considered toys.

titan_tbc

01-25-2005, 04:42 PM

i personally think graff is kind of art, u need 2 have a good mind 2 do it and a dick style but it can be mostly vandalism if u just plain suck at it or u write bad words down on it

ILL

01-25-2005, 04:44 PM

never mind

SALVO

01-25-2005, 05:00 PM

I agree Gesus, I'm honestly supprised that you said what you said though cause I know you're all about that "street art"

But graffiti is what ever you want it to be, but its vandalism, it started as vandalism and it will always be vandalism. Legal walls are a waste of paint and time, I don't really consider it to be graffiti either. I like doing graffiti to get reactions and just to have fun. I don't think it would be realistic to pursue an art career based on graffiti.

Soar

01-25-2005, 05:06 PM

graffiti can be vandalism, and art at the same time.. of course all illegal pieces can be thrown under vandalism because the law says so, still dosen't make it NOT art

some vandals have statements to say. two statements are made: the blatant disrespect of defacing a public thing, and whatever it is that they tag.

those statements, both are expressions. thats what art is, it's an expression.

simple tags like
http://img180.exs.cx/img180/439/dsc00144jpg3vk.jpg

could be interpreted as art, even though that is vandalism. theres expression in the different handstyles, is there not? different or unique structures for each person.. it creates an identity if theres individualism in the handstyles.

because the person who tags they are, maybe didn't intend them to be art; it dosen't mean they absolutely cannot be interpreted as so.

art is vast, art is everywhere.

Soar

01-25-2005, 05:11 PM

Originally posted by SALVO@Jan 25 2005, 06:00 PM
But graffiti is what ever you want it to be, but its vandalism, it started as vandalism and it will always be vandalism. Legal walls are a waste of paint and time, I don't really consider it to be graffiti either. I like doing graffiti to get reactions and just to have fun. I don't think it would be realistic to pursue an art career based on graffiti.
just some extra comments-

But graffiti is what ever you want it to be
agreed..

I like doing graffiti to get reactions and just to have fun

unless you want to be stubborn, and for some reason you think it's not cool to be an "artist".. you should realize that doing things to get a reaction is an expression.. theres "shock value" in thousands upon thousands of paintings, sculptures, etc..

you can be a fucking computer programmer, an army commander, a small business owner.. theres no rules or guidelines to follow when creating art. create what you want man, dont feel pressured into going somewhere with 'art' if you dont want to.. it dosen't mean anything unless you want it to, to even use your own words.

Soar

01-25-2005, 05:12 PM

why is there no delete option.

"LIMIT"

01-25-2005, 05:13 PM

Im with SOAR.

Graffiti is art because you are using your imagination to create your own lines, I mean, if you arent a biter, you gonna create an original piece, tag, or whatever just using your imagination, and thats art, creating things from your mind.

And for those who think that handstyles are just vandalism, I say no, because you are tracing lines that come from your mind, thats why every tagger have its own style, a line in a different angle can do a huge difference.

Soar

01-25-2005, 05:19 PM

i'm not justifying biters by any means, know that.. but an extremely famous quote by Picasso:

"Good artists create, great artists steal."

thats isnt directly relatable to biters, cause thats just not right at all.. but u steal from things.. you steal from whatever inspires you. nature, people, anything..

ACE512

01-25-2005, 05:25 PM

yeah i agree with the guy on the first page with the long ass essay lol that i only read the first sentence in that graffiti is a stepping stone into structural types of art. im studying architecture right now and am into graphic design (photoshop) and graffiti i feel got me there.

hitshit89

01-25-2005, 05:28 PM

the best explanation i ever heard of graffiti was in style wars that detective who said:is graffiti an art? i dont know im not an art critic but i can sure as hell tell you its a crime. best explanation ever!! :ph34r:

ssypark89

01-25-2005, 05:28 PM

first you should be asking yourself.. "What is Art?"
well i looked into a dictionary and it says:

Definitions of art:

noun: the creation of beautiful or significant things
Example: "A good example of modern art"

noun: the products of human creativity; works of art collectively
Example: "An art exhibition"

noun: a superior skill that you can learn by study and practice and observation
Example: "The art of conversation"

noun: photographs or other visual representations in a printed publication
Example: "The publisher was responsible for all the artwork in the book"

In my opinion, i think graffiti is.. in a way. whatever is an expression of yourself and comes from you head is art and so does graffiti(unless it is bitten). I think Bombs are harder to make up than peices and you really need to use your mind to make an original one. so i think bombs are art to.. in art you also need to find balance, as als in grafiti. so yea... I think graffiti is is art in many ways... well thats my opinion.

seckzoner

01-25-2005, 05:28 PM

uhhhhhhhh, how is graffiti not an art?
an art can be anything. how come graffiti suddenly turned to vandalism after it was taken out of ghettos? it still holds its properties.
you can take the ghettos out of graffiti, but i really feel as ART is ART, "its all in the eye of the beholder, blahblahblah." its all how you look at things.

EDIT::
How come graffiti on LEGALS, automatically art?
just because you take all the Illegal shit away, doesnt mean that its suddenly NOT ART. just because of a law. Art is ART, no matter what.
its like saying that just because you adopt a child, you arent the parent. It is what it is.

THEPOSTWHORE5000

01-25-2005, 05:31 PM

gesus, i meant "blank wall"
i doubt anyone was truly interested in a blank wall, unless they were on LSD, shrooms, and other fun drugs.

havoc-yup its panic..new name..

Ravek

01-25-2005, 05:39 PM

i wrote my post before i read any one else's post so it wouldn't influence my opinion on this subject, graffiti is considered art by richer parts of soceity the people that don't have to look at it every day, grafffiti is hated strongly by the poorer parts of soceiety, because they look at it everyday and they can't read, its all dirty scribley and shit, and it gives off a feel of discomfort and making them feel like they arn't secure, bombing is not art, ther is little or no effort put forth in tagging or bustin throws, it like breathing, you do it all the time, and its nothing special when some one takes a breath of air, maybe if ur tag can tell some one what u were feeling (joy, anger, depression, etc) then it may be art by some in the art world, it hard to get feeling so strong out of somthing like that, bombing is about getting ur name up and around for people to see and acknoledge ur existence, i kno that other writers will stop to read ur throw or tag, but regular people won't, the only time that happened that i kno off the top of my head is cornbread in the 70's, my dad remebers distinctly seeing corn bread when he was young in the city, but that doesn't make it art, bombing is not art, i think graffiti murals are very artistic depending on what it is, if its an awesome piece with a aweosme backround thats art, like the murals that 3A crew does, that is art, the writer puts effort forth into the whole mural, he/she puts the effort forth then steps back and looks at it he/she gets a great feeling inside, when a writer does an awesome character, that a regular person can look and say "wow thats really cool" then that is definately art, there are alot of diferent styles to diferent writers, and i think its about the amount of effort put forth, if people rich or poor can enjoy looking at it and if u can see expression and feelings other then destruction in it, then it some graffiti may be art, also regualar people can look at a piece with a billion arrows and really colors and be like wow thats really good, but actaully it can be shit to some writers, then that is knowing the art of graffiti, like the art of carpentry, or the art of metal workers

bombing= not art
piecing and murals= art

GeSuS_KRiST

01-25-2005, 05:47 PM

Originally posted by SALVO@Jan 25 2005, 06:00 PM
I agree Gesus, I'm honestly supprised that you said what you said though cause I know you're all about that "street art"

But graffiti is what ever you want it to be, but its vandalism, it started as vandalism and it will always be vandalism. Legal walls are a waste of paint and time, I don't really consider it to be graffiti either. I like doing graffiti to get reactions and just to have fun. I don't think it would be realistic to pursue an art career based on graffiti.
well man a while ago a good writer once told me "street art is graffiti but graffiti is not street art" and i live by those words because when i sat down nd started thinking about what he said its sooo true...

i used to be all about giving my parents the graffiti is art speach untill i actually stepped back and really looked at it from a person who doesnt do graffitis view and then i looked at it as my person who does graffiti view and noticed that it wasnt art even when i looked at it though my eyes....

i noticed all the toy shit around... all the bombs and toss, all the trouble i been in.. the arrests everything, i do some art but i do a whole fuck load lot more vandlism which is why im tryin to balence it all out with painting up junk laying around and puting it all over in public places so it not vandlism its recreating shit and i have watched people pick up a bit of my art work and walk away with it.... and its a good feeling knowning that it might be a gift to some one.. or it will be hangin in someones houses... its a good feeling but then again so it the huge freeway hit i did last night along with all the bombing... but i think rebus said it best when he said "the art is the vandlism"

swich

01-25-2005, 06:01 PM

Of corse its art!!!!!!!Tagger graffiti can often be easily recognized because it is more stylized and artistic, with fat, wild-style, or geometric letters. It usually contains brighter colors and more detail than gang graffiti, and may include pictures, as wellTo many taggers, graffiti is a culture and a way of life. Many taggers believe they are creating a form of artwork, which they call "aerosol art." As a tagger begins to build a reputation, he or she will chose a style and nickname. As taggers gain more experience, they will look for larger walls and locations that are more difficult to reach. When they are not doing more graffiti, most taggers will talk about graffiti and carry sketchbooks to draw ideas. Many will keep ledgers or records of their activities, including where they tagged and how long the graffiti stayed up before it was removed. Some will travel to other areas to learn about graffiti techniques. They also study the work of other taggers, often from other areas around the world. Of course, the Internet has only facilitated this process. Taggers are proud of their "art," and will often photograph or videotape their "work" as it is being drawn by the tagging crew. They will take their friends to see it. so yeah i personally do think it is a form of art....just illegal art, but art none the less.

tre'tre'

01-25-2005, 06:11 PM

sounds like something youd hear on the news^^^ or a shitty documentary on graffiti artists

tre'tre'

01-25-2005, 06:14 PM

(swich's post)

dez1

01-25-2005, 06:16 PM

im no art critic but in my eyes a real nice coulorfull peice is art with out a dought. but mindless vandelism like 50+ tags on 1 door and 50+throw-ups on some random wall isnt art BUT SO FUCK ITS FUN!!!!!! :lol: :P

SEtAK

01-25-2005, 06:27 PM

the real art is people make canvas .. nice product with carac .. sticker .. like gesus your are art ... some other are to ...

SALVO

01-25-2005, 07:31 PM

With both graffiti and traditional art there comes a community, one community is filled with criminals and kids who never got enough hugs. The other is filled with people trying to out weird eachother. I know this is a huge generalization but theres a lot more in graffiti than there ever was/will be in art.

When you go out and illegally paint you're risking a lot, maybe even you're life in some places. You dedicate time and labor over a piece with cans of paint, you get into fights, you get cut up, shot at, chased, stuck up, or arrested. For what? Painting on other people's property...

Now in the art scene, you get some rich banker who collects abstract art go give you a 10,000 dollar grant so you can buy a canvas to throw shit at and pay for your spacious Manhattan loft. The rest of the money goes towards party drugs.

What motivates a graffiti artist? Passion, recgognition, and fun, you don't get paid to scrawl on walls that don't belong to you.

Lazer

01-25-2005, 07:36 PM

it's the art of letter structure and color use

Lazer

01-25-2005, 07:36 PM

it's the art of letter structure and color use

Soar

01-25-2005, 07:37 PM

bombing is not art, ther is little or no effort put forth in tagging or bustin throws, it like breathing, you do it all the time, and its nothing special when some one takes a breath of air, maybe if ur tag can tell some one what u were feeling (joy, anger, depression, etc) then it may be art by some in the art world

Ravek, you really couldn't be more wrong.

effort isn't a determining factor whether something is art or not..

and if something is so abstract not a single person in the world can understand it, that dosent make it NOT art.. it has NOTHING to do with the idea if people can decipher it "correctly" or not.

and gesus's quote
i used to be all about giving my parents the graffiti is art speach untill i actually stepped back and really looked at it from a person who doesnt do graffitis view and then i looked at it as my person who does graffiti view and noticed that it wasnt art even when i looked at it though my eyes....
some people don't like michalangelo's artwork. some don't like davinci. some don't understand dali's. just because someone can't appreciate an art form, dosen't instantly make it not art.

"the art is the vandlism" is a great quote. it can get even more complex if you reverse it too. "the vandalism is an art"

pane in prov

01-25-2005, 08:10 PM

graffiti is its own thing its self only people who do it will recognize the skill and hard work put into it and as for throws and some handies there is somewhat skill but not as much cus most handstyles and throws all look the same but idk its definitly vandalism cus your destroying it even if pablo picasso did a paint on the front of a quikie mart people would be like wtf why? cus it dont belong there but we all decided we ll do what ever the fuck we want its like one big rebellion with paint and in the process we pick up skill some how

pane in prov

01-25-2005, 08:13 PM

oh damn i read that over and its hard to understand
me stupid

tre'tre'

01-25-2005, 08:26 PM

To me art is whatever you percieve it to be, art is everywhere. Just because the police call graffiti vandalism doesnt mean it is. Vandalism is destruction, now open your eyes, graffiti is not destroying anything. Alot of you guys go out and say "Yeah man i write, im all out for destroying shit". Like your all hardcore and gangster or something. It sounds fucking stupid. And for some writers, graffiti isnt just about getting your name known, i dont care if im known or ever get known, because for me its the thought behind the tag, bomb, piece...whatever. Maybe to you someones graffiti does look like shit, but who are you to say whats good and whats not? You arent anybody to say that, because thats the great thing about graffiti, that there are no rules. Scribbles on electrical boxes aren't just scribbles, theres hard work, determination, skill, and a thought process involved. Graffiti is art. Art doesnt have to be on canvas to be called art. The mian reason im out writing and not sitting at home making canvases is because i love graffiti/art, its fun, and at the same time im defying the governemnt, and there fucked up rules they have created for todays corrupted society which they are responsible for. Graffiti is only vandalism if you believe and agree with what the law says. But if you make your own rules and set your own boundaries, graffiti...like art is whatever you percieve it to be. So to me graffiti is just another type of art. Out writing for the destroying? cant you see? were not destroying anything, were creating.

tre'tre'

01-25-2005, 08:30 PM

oh and gesus, i understand where your coming from, but i have to say, i completely disagree.

silvr-one-bcg

01-25-2005, 08:44 PM

i think bombing is art sometimes.....

the real heads are putting out work that in some ways is like calligraphy, making stylized letters. that and handstyles to me can be art, but 90% of stuff out there is shite.

pSYKAOz

01-25-2005, 10:00 PM

i jsut noticed... most of u saying its vandalism... are pretty much toys. (not all but most)

n those saying tags arent art... is like saying calligraphy isnt an art form. when its a widely accepted art form. and graffity is best described as 'urban calligraphy' therefore its art.

if you TRULY jsut believe in vandalism. why bother calling a kid a toy? hes fucking up shit! who cares if he has style or not??? point is hes doing vandalism.

now if graff is art... then having a nice handstyle is important. its having good calligraphy.

spend 3 yrs perfecting a tag... n then tell me its not art... cover 3 sheets of paper in lil pencil tags, n just find one intresting curve to rework n rework till u have one intresting letter and then finally an intresting tag... if thats pure vandalism... jeez. seems like alot of work when i could jsut throw rocks thru windows no? n if i jsut wana get my name up... whjy not use my normal handwritting? would be the most 'vandal' way to get up...

and why seperate the two? they arent mutually exclusive. its vandalism. its art. its both lol...

its destroying property in an artistic fashion... n i dont care if its jsut a 3 second tag... master artists can render the basis of a human with all the emotion and movement in 5 seconds or so and using jsut 3-4 lines...

its kinda like a 'tag' of a human lol...

to have a dope tag is alot harder then to have a dope piece. a tag is lines. one color. maybe flare if your with a can, or drips wiht a marker. thats pretty much it...

its alot harder to make something really dope that will make ppl stop o nthe street with a lil black line then rocking a 10 color piece, no matter if u got alot skills or not...

plus your tag style tend in most cases to define your pieces, specially as a beginner so its very much the 'skeleton' of your art...

Coo

01-25-2005, 10:27 PM

^^^ he makes sence.

LOSTxTHExFAITH

01-25-2005, 10:52 PM

Originally posted by GeSuS_KRiST@Jan 25 2005, 04:03 PM
[QUOTE=oblong,Jan 25 2005, 03:54 PM] rebus homie, that was a mind full im glad someone finally put some real shit into what they said.. i was hopinh u and some of the other older writers would throw in some words
Not a problem good sir...

the infamous one

01-26-2005, 06:55 AM

i personally consider peicing art.......like when u paint a portrait..its art....then when u paint a peice your putting the same skill into it....same with charaters...but bombing and throwies...no

glue

01-26-2005, 08:33 AM

Originally posted by GeSuS_KRiST@Jan 25 2005, 03:28 PM
ok im tired of here a whole bunch of toys try to tell me graffiti is art, personally i think graffiti is vandlism.... im out for the distruction and getting my name up not to do art.... i see nothing artist about scribles on electrical boxes and tosses on people personal stuff... dont get me wrong graffiti take up a BIG part in my life but yea...

graffiti stoped being art once it was taken out of the ghettos where it made it the dark depressing broken down walls ect into something colorful and gave kids hope and somthing to do instead of gang banging ect...

but i wanna see your everyones views on this, who know if might even help some people out with doing reports in school
why cant it be both?

glue

01-26-2005, 08:35 AM

Originally posted by LOSTxTHExFAITH@Jan 25 2005, 11:55 PM
[QUOTE=oblong,Jan 25 2005, 03:54 PM] rebus homie, that was a mind full im glad someone finally put some real shit into what they said.. i was hopinh u and some of the other older writers would throw in some words
Not a problem good sir...
well there is some artistic level that goes into it. so you cant really say its not art, it is vandalism but that means nothing.

glue

01-26-2005, 08:44 AM

Originally posted by pSYKAOz@Jan 25 2005, 11:00 PM
i jsut noticed... most of u saying its vandalism... are pretty much toys. (not all but most)

n those saying tags arent art... is like saying calligraphy isnt an art form. when its a widely accepted art form. and graffity is best described as 'urban calligraphy' therefore its art.

if you TRULY jsut believe in vandalism. why bother calling a kid a toy? hes fucking up shit! who cares if he has style or not??? point is hes doing vandalism.

now if graff is art... then having a nice handstyle is important. its having good calligraphy.

spend 3 yrs perfecting a tag... n then tell me its not art... cover 3 sheets of paper in lil pencil tags, n just find one intresting curve to rework n rework till u have one intresting letter and then finally an intresting tag... if thats pure vandalism... jeez. seems like alot of work when i could jsut throw rocks thru windows no? n if i jsut wana get my name up... whjy not use my normal handwritting? would be the most 'vandal' way to get up...

and why seperate the two? they arent mutually exclusive. its vandalism. its art. its both lol...

its destroying property in an artistic fashion... n i dont care if its jsut a 3 second tag... master artists can render the basis of a human with all the emotion and movement in 5 seconds or so and using jsut 3-4 lines...

its kinda like a 'tag' of a human lol...

to have a dope tag is alot harder then to have a dope piece. a tag is lines. one color. maybe flare if your with a can, or drips wiht a marker. thats pretty much it...

its alot harder to make something really dope that will make ppl stop o nthe street with a lil black line then rocking a 10 color piece, no matter if u got alot skills or not...

plus your tag style tend in most cases to define your pieces, specially as a beginner so its very much the 'skeleton' of your art...
why thank you you said what im too lazy to type.
if you do a bomb on paper its art because its not vandalism?
fuck you guys are ignorant alot of you have horrible bombs and tags ide rather have nice bombs and tags then some wack thing with colour. shit doesnt have to be good to be art you can be horerible at what your doing but that doesnt mean your still not doing art. if i wanted to vandalize i would break bus stop windows not write my name on them. i dont vandalise shit that looks good to me a blank wall looks ugly a wall with splashes of colour all over it on the other hand does look like arte to me weather its a mural or a bomb ill give respect, it doesnt even have to be graff. fuck the haters if you dont respect it as art then stop doing it, i do have a sort of respect for it if i was just a vandal i would do worse.

glue

01-26-2005, 08:48 AM

Originally posted by GeSuS_KRiST@Jan 25 2005, 04:00 PM

but how is this art is what im wondering?

http://img180.exs.cx/img180/8458/00065gp.jpg
http://img180.exs.cx/img180/439/dsc00144jpg3vk.jpg
fuck you! your telling m,e that no artistic skill goes into that?

DK5600

01-26-2005, 09:19 AM

its just a new movment of art. Van Gough was laughed at when he was alive... and he is now considered a master. to create tags and such still takes some level of creativity.

vegimite on toast

01-26-2005, 09:43 AM

It really depends, peices and nice prods are art. Throws and tags are for expression/fucking things up/ and or getting noticed. I don't really see them as art per say but some people do. Really tagging and throws and bombing are what give graff a bad name, but i like doing it. You can have graffiti without tags and throws.

sika_2002

01-26-2005, 10:09 AM

i think certain aspects of graffiti are art, like pieces by daim, totem, astek ect. although i think it is about the destruction aswell.

GRAVITY

01-26-2005, 10:11 AM

that wall under the sake looks nice.... dirty maybe in some eyes but it looks like a canvas =S with an urban theme

anyway anything that has a process of structuring is art....
no not including your boner, haha jk hm notfunny but anyawy

why are graffiti pieces getting criticized? cause ppl dont like the structure, ppl like the color scheme, ppl like the arrows, ppl like the flow...

ppl has to judge pieces by using artistic factors

as for bombs and tags.... i find some throwups/bombs to be art, by how creative they were able to structure a simple thing

tags i donno, someone say something =S

MoNkEy

01-26-2005, 10:47 AM

i would say its both. I mean letter forms and shit are taken as art, ask any artist and they will say all lettering is art. Also some shit aint like bombing and leaving ur handstyle everywhere is purpsoley gettin up and vandalising, but then again its letter forms so it still does have art in it.

glue

01-26-2005, 10:57 AM

most of you suck at graff that might be why you dont respect it as art. alot of pieces are wack, i hate these things with no letters and extentions and wonderful colours. so fuck you. even if you use really generic letter its still art.

Msfyt

01-26-2005, 11:06 AM

art 1 (ärt)
NOUN:
Human effort to imitate, supplement, alter, or counteract the work of nature.

A system of principles and methods employed in the performance of a set of activities: the art of building.
A trade or craft that applies such a system of principles and methods: the art of the lexicographer.

Skill that is attained by study, practice, or observation: the art of the baker; the blacksmith's art.
Skill arising from the exercise of intuitive faculties: "Self-criticism is an art not many are qualified to practice" (Joyce Carol Oates).

arts Artful devices, stratagems, and tricks.
Artful contrivance; cunning.

...on a side note why can vadalism not be art?

glue

01-26-2005, 11:06 AM

http://www.bombingscience.com/graff1/bombTO-05161.jpg
this isnt art? thats a product of bombing, its pretty nice and if theres no artistc skill involved then why do alot of you suck?\
http://www.bombingscience.com/graff1/bombTO05631.jpg
this isnt art? your telling me that sitht put no artistic skill into this and that all of you can amonnt?
if there was no skill put into it you would all be amazing and not suck so hard. anyone can throw cans at a wall and get colour, but not alot of people can make letters work, make letters look good but still keep them as letters. FUCK YOU!

DK5600

01-26-2005, 11:15 AM

http://img196.exs.cx/img196/8528/azazgoth5pk.jpg

couple hundred years later....

http://img196.exs.cx/img196/5409/tag6dl.jpg

pogopope

01-26-2005, 11:52 AM

id say its both too.

sure were ruining peoples shit, but it takes a good amound of studying, practicing, effort, emotion, and passion to do. people aready said it but if it was purely vandalism why bother even developing style? its the style thats an artform. style in tags, throws and peicing.

in any form of art you have diffrent materials you need to be formilliar with. just like painters 200 years ago needed to know about canvasses or whatever they were painitng, diffrent kinds of paint (acryllic, oil based, egg tempra, etc.); we need to know about diffrent shit to use to make inks, make markers, diffrent caps, and so on..

i vote that graffiti is art, but its vandalism too.

DjTerrestrialConcept

01-26-2005, 11:55 AM

I am torn... I find it to be both but both sides have a reasonable argument... Lets just have it be a hybrid of art and vandilism. Its art if you want it to be but vandilism if you want it to be, or HELL EVEN BOTH because if you see it as art you are doing it illegally so it is vandalism. Think it out.....

Msfyt

01-26-2005, 12:10 PM

Originally posted by DjTerrestrialConcept@Jan 26 2005, 01:55 PM
I am torn... I find it to be both but both sides have a reasonable argument... Lets just have it be a hybrid of art and vandilism. Its art if you want it to be but vandilism if you want it to be, or HELL EVEN BOTH because if you see it as art you are doing it illegally so it is vandalism. Think it out.....

why does everyone keep saying that it is vandalism!!!

that has nothing to do if it art or not!!
vandalism can still be art, as art can be vandalism

the question is graffiti art, not is vandalism art. because yes some vandalism is art (graffiti) and some is not (tearing down a statue).

graffiti=art=vandalism=graffiti

Asshat

01-26-2005, 12:11 PM

Originally posted by swich@Jan 25 2005, 07:01 PM
Of corse its art!!!!!!!Tagger graffiti can often be easily recognized because it is more stylized and artistic, with fat, wild-style, or geometric letters. It usually contains brighter colors and more detail than gang graffiti, and may include pictures, as wellTo many taggers, graffiti is a culture and a way of life. Many taggers believe they are creating a form of artwork, which they call "aerosol art." As a tagger begins to build a reputation, he or she will chose a style and nickname. As taggers gain more experience, they will look for larger walls and locations that are more difficult to reach. When they are not doing more graffiti, most taggers will talk about graffiti and carry sketchbooks to draw ideas. Many will keep ledgers or records of their activities, including where they tagged and how long the graffiti stayed up before it was removed. Some will travel to other areas to learn about graffiti techniques. They also study the work of other taggers, often from other areas around the world. Of course, the Internet has only facilitated this process. Taggers are proud of their "art," and will often photograph or videotape their "work" as it is being drawn by the tagging crew. They will take their friends to see it. so yeah i personally do think it is a form of art....just illegal art, but art none the less.
Shutup faggot.

This is what you actually had to say...

Of corse its art!!!!!!! so yeah i personally do think it is a form of art....just illegal art, but art none the less.

GeSuS_KRiST

01-26-2005, 12:49 PM

Originally posted by Soar@Jan 25 2005, 08:37 PM

and gesus's quote
i used to be all about giving my parents the graffiti is art speach untill i actually stepped back and really looked at it from a person who doesnt do graffitis view and then i looked at it as my person who does graffiti view and noticed that it wasnt art even when i looked at it though my eyes....
some people don't like michalangelo's artwork. some don't like davinci. some don't understand dali's. just because someone can't appreciate an art form, dosen't instantly make it not art.

"the art is the vandlism" is a great quote. it can get even more complex if you reverse it too. "the vandalism is an art"
i nevewre said there wasn't any art involved i mean hey.... ima street artist theres not way i can say there no in there... but me personall i DONT do legal everything i do it strickly illegal and i see no art in that....

if this was any other website i would say its art but the fact that theres only a handfull... or was a handfull of people that bust murals... makes me art its not art because 80% of this website ISNT pumping out art

Bass~choker

01-26-2005, 12:54 PM

its art at someone elses expence

"LIMIT"

01-26-2005, 01:00 PM

I tagg to make the things look better, and not for destroying them, at least thats me, and theres vandalism but just because the people put these rules, think about not having rules like you cant "destroy" people's property, then its not vandalism, so what is it then?

GeSuS_KRiST

01-26-2005, 01:29 PM

Originally posted by glue+Jan 26 2005, 09:48 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (glue @ Jan 26 2005, 09:48 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-GeSuS_KRiST@Jan 25 2005, 04:00 PM

but how is this art is what im wondering?

http://img180.exs.cx/img180/8458/00065gp.jpg
http://img180.exs.cx/img180/439/dsc00144jpg3vk.jpg
fuck you! your telling m,e that no artistic skill goes into that? [/b][/quote]
first off FUCK YOU !!!!

second yea im saying there no artwork behind that i do agree with what waster12 said about the callig part but whatever when i make a statment ill always hold my grounds weather im right or wrong thats just how i am...

but ok so your doing to tell me simple ass throws that both u and me KNOW it takes maybe 30 seconds to do is art? how the fuck does that compair murals, sick characters, Permission walls (not legals) and everything else? theres no way it can how the fuck is it art i mean look man we both go out and bomb... how long does it take u to do hallow toss letters? how long did it take u to come up with somthing girls in 4th grade used to draw i mean dont get my wrong there are alot of SICK tosses out there like my boy dusbe's
http://img183.exs.cx/img183/8611/P8040098psd.jpg

but is that still art when its compaired with this?

http://img164.exs.cx/img164/4871/p8040093psd2ur.jpg

as for hand styles there no art in them psy made a VERY good point i mean as much as maybe 3 or 4 people say i bit geezpot hand style i had it before i was every on bombing science it evolded from a philly hand style into what it is now... i love my handstyle and alot of other people do too but do i concider it art? fuck no

why cant u be liek all the other mature kids and just say ill agree to disagree but i see your point? you have to be a lil kid and act like what i said offended you

BOTTOM LINE

here some art for u guys :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
http://img71.photobucket.com/albums/v215/Sicko613/Graffiti/SKIN4.jpg
http://img68.photobucket.com/albums/v208/SEKone/101_0189.jpg
http://photos.fotango.com/p/eba00436930f00000001.jpg
http://photos.fotango.com/p/eba00400884f00000015.jpg

H311 Y3@h D@t5 50m3 k3wl @rt YO!

psh.... please

Ume

01-26-2005, 01:39 PM

to me it all depends on what you do, if you do murals and peices then its art, if not then its just expressing yourself in a vandal/semi artistic way, or it could be to look "cool" to other people, but if its just a tag or a throwie it isent art.....but remember ones mans garbage is another mans treasure.

xkingxsizexskillzx

01-26-2005, 01:40 PM

i voted no

i think in a way graffiti is art, but at the same time its vandilism. i started graffiti for the sack of destroying city property, just cause they are all a bunch of douche bags, so to me its vandilism. but piece or a mural or on paper i guess is art right? fuck the "oh if its just some toy its not art" whether your a toy or not its all the same..ITS VANDILISM :)

Soar

01-26-2005, 02:04 PM

gesus, if your an open minded person, you won't take this offensively:

stop being ignorant.

now, if you are an open minded person, you would realize im not saying that to insult you or make you seem like a fool.

just because someone isn't skilled at art, dosen't make it not art. you're basically saying "that looks like shit, it takes no skill, and it is vandalism. therefore it isnt art"- which is an ignorant comment

theres nothing wrong with saying "that tag looks like fuckin shit, it sucks"

now, if you reply calling me a toy and telling me how much more you know than me, you'll just proove to me youre ignorant. but i'll give you more credit than that, because i think you're smart enough to realize i wasn't rippin on you by saying that, i'm just making an attempt to expand your mind

"LIMIT"

01-26-2005, 02:15 PM

Originally posted by xkingxsizexskillzx@Jan 26 2005, 02:40 PM
i voted no

i think in a way graffiti is art, but at the same time its vandilism. i started graffiti for the sack of destroying city property, just cause they are all a bunch of douche bags, so to me its vandilism. but piece or a mural or on paper i guess is art right? fuck the "oh if its just some toy its not art" whether your a toy or not its all the same..ITS VANDILISM :)
Really, so how does the graffiti converts AUTOMATICALLY in art when you do it on paper and not on a wall?, like I said before, if "vandalism" doesnt exist because you can paint whaterever you want, then whats graffiti there?, just... nothing?, I dont think so.

"LIMIT"

01-26-2005, 02:20 PM

Yeah, like if I cared about that.

glue

01-26-2005, 02:26 PM

Originally posted by GeSuS_KRiST+Jan 26 2005, 02:29 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (GeSuS_KRiST @ Jan 26 2005, 02:29 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by glue@Jan 26 2005, 09:48 AM
<!--QuoteBegin-GeSuS_KRiST@Jan 25 2005, 04:00 PM

but how is this art is what im wondering?

http://img180.exs.cx/img180/8458/00065gp.jpg
http://img180.exs.cx/img180/439/dsc00144jpg3vk.jpg
fuck you! your telling m,e that no artistic skill goes into that?
first off FUCK YOU !!!!

second yea im saying there no artwork behind that i do agree with what waster12 said about the callig part but whatever when i make a statment ill always hold my grounds weather im right or wrong thats just how i am...

but ok so your doing to tell me simple ass throws that both u and me KNOW it takes maybe 30 seconds to do is art? how the fuck does that compair murals, sick characters, Permission walls (not legals) and everything else? theres no way it can how the fuck is it art i mean look man we both go out and bomb... how long does it take u to do hallow toss letters? how long did it take u to come up with somthing girls in 4th grade used to draw i mean dont get my wrong there are alot of SICK tosses out there like my boy dusbe's
http://img183.exs.cx/img183/8611/P8040098psd.jpg

but is that still art when its compaired with this?

http://img164.exs.cx/img164/4871/p8040093psd2ur.jpg

as for hand styles there no art in them psy made a VERY good point i mean as much as maybe 3 or 4 people say i bit geezpot hand style i had it before i was every on bombing science it evolded from a philly hand style into what it is now... i love my handstyle and alot of other people do too but do i concider it art? fuck no

why cant u be liek all the other mature kids and just say ill agree to disagree but i see your point? you have to be a lil kid and act like what i said offended you

BOTTOM LINE

here some art for u guys :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
http://img71.photobucket.com/albums/v215/Sicko613/Graffiti/SKIN4.jpg
http://img68.photobucket.com/albums/v208/SEKone/101_0189.jpg
http://photos.fotango.com/p/eba00436930f00000001.jpg
http://photos.fotango.com/p/eba00400884f00000015.jpg

H311 Y3@h D@t5 50m3 k3wl @rt YO!

psh.... please [/b][/quote]
exactly those people suck, they havce no artistic skill just becxause you do a piece doesnt mean its art it could suck horribly. seriously though ive never respected you on this shit seriously i respect little people on this site they know who they are. fuck you again.

glue

01-26-2005, 02:30 PM

Originally posted by Msfyt+Jan 26 2005, 01:10 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Msfyt @ Jan 26 2005, 01:10 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-DjTerrestrialConcept@Jan 26 2005, 01:55 PM
I am torn... I find it to be both but both sides have a reasonable argument... Lets just have it be a hybrid of art and vandilism. Its art if you want it to be but vandilism if you want it to be, or HELL EVEN BOTH because if you see it as art you are doing it illegally so it is vandalism. Think it out.....

why does everyone keep saying that it is vandalism!!!

that has nothing to do if it art or not!!
vandalism can still be art, as art can be vandalism

the question is graffiti art, not is vandalism art. because yes some vandalism is art (graffiti) and some is not (tearing down a statue).

graffiti=art=vandalism=graffiti [/b][/quote]
yes thats what im saying the fact that graffiti is vandalism has nothing to do with it being art its both.

LOSTxTHExFAITH

01-26-2005, 02:34 PM

Fuck my eyes....
Why are you posting that shit..

joust

01-26-2005, 03:25 PM

i think your walking a fine line by trying to decide "yes" or "no". Personally, tags are not art, bombs are not art, but peices and productions are. Tags and bombs are ment to just get your name up the the fastest and most noticable way, were as peices and productions require planing, sketches, and knowage of colors (for thoes of us who pay attention to color almost as much as design). I belive that graff is what people make it as well. If your really into it, and you put so much work into everything you do you may personally consiter it art, where as someone who just does it for the hell of it on the side might consiter it just some delinquint thing they do for fun, not art. Its my oppinion that diffrent people interpret what they are doing in diffrent ways, theirfor posing the question art or not doesent really have a answer.

i dident start off doing art with graff. I am a potter at heart and always will be, but i use glase methods on my graff sometimes and the same with my pottery.

im sorry im a terrable speller.

Shrink

01-26-2005, 03:28 PM

"Art Is Whatever You Can Get Away With" Andy Warhol.

Peicing is art. Hell, even bombing is art. By mutating a word into multicolored bubbles with shadows is art. Characters are art.

Tags are like caligraphy. If Caligraphy, which is just writing something fancy, is an art, so is tagging.

If Throw ups were just getting your name out, you could just write the word. No bubbles or coloring, or shading.

It is art.

xENDOx

01-26-2005, 03:30 PM

I think graff and art are both what you as a indvidual see/think/get from it. Graffiti should not be labeled or put in a genre. It comes down to your opinions and views. Much like life. "To each his own.."

dageotb

01-26-2005, 03:53 PM

once i was at 5ptz at nyc i was painting and a girl ask me for a interview and she ask my i consiter my graff art artistic then i told her no way because i am a true vandal and i destroyed the nyc train with my throw ups and burner then she was so suprised when i made that statment...now these day's graff is know as a low level art form to the city of ny but to me the new school and the back in the day's graffiti artist are respective at all four corner's of the world

dageotb

01-26-2005, 03:54 PM

Originally posted by glue+Jan 26 2005, 03:26 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (glue @ Jan 26 2005, 03:26 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by GeSuS_KRiST@Jan 26 2005, 02:29 PM
Originally posted by glue@Jan 26 2005, 09:48 AM
<!--QuoteBegin-GeSuS_KRiST@Jan 25 2005, 04:00 PM

but how is this art is what im wondering?

http://img180.exs.cx/img180/8458/00065gp.jpg
http://img180.exs.cx/img180/439/dsc00144jpg3vk.jpg
fuck you! your telling m,e that no artistic skill goes into that?
first off FUCK YOU !!!!

second yea im saying there no artwork behind that i do agree with what waster12 said about the callig part but whatever when i make a statment ill always hold my grounds weather im right or wrong thats just how i am...

but ok so your doing to tell me simple ass throws that both u and me KNOW it takes maybe 30 seconds to do is art? how the fuck does that compair murals, sick characters, Permission walls (not legals) and everything else? theres no way it can how the fuck is it art i mean look man we both go out and bomb... how long does it take u to do hallow toss letters? how long did it take u to come up with somthing girls in 4th grade used to draw i mean dont get my wrong there are alot of SICK tosses out there like my boy dusbe's
http://img183.exs.cx/img183/8611/P8040098psd.jpg

but is that still art when its compaired with this?

http://img164.exs.cx/img164/4871/p8040093psd2ur.jpg

as for hand styles there no art in them psy made a VERY good point i mean as much as maybe 3 or 4 people say i bit geezpot hand style i had it before i was every on bombing science it evolded from a philly hand style into what it is now... i love my handstyle and alot of other people do too but do i concider it art? fuck no

why cant u be liek all the other mature kids and just say ill agree to disagree but i see your point? you have to be a lil kid and act like what i said offended you

BOTTOM LINE

here some art for u guys :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
http://img71.photobucket.com/albums/v215/Sicko613/Graffiti/SKIN4.jpg
http://img68.photobucket.com/albums/v208/SEKone/101_0189.jpg
http://photos.fotango.com/p/eba00436930f00000001.jpg
http://photos.fotango.com/p/eba00400884f00000015.jpg

H311 Y3@h D@t5 50m3 k3wl @rt YO!

psh.... please
exactly those people suck, they havce no artistic skill just becxause you do a piece doesnt mean its art it could suck horribly. seriously though ive never respected you on this shit seriously i respect little people on this site they know who they are. fuck you again. [/b][/quote]
wow that what i call gangsta bombing

SoldAsFreedom

01-26-2005, 04:00 PM

Man I just respect you for coming out and telling people to give an explanation when they say "Graffiti is art". Instead of just saying it mindlessely to everybody. Good Job Man.

infer one

01-26-2005, 04:34 PM

ok im tired of here a whole bunch of toys try to tell me graffiti is art, personally i think graffiti is vandlism.... im out for the distruction and getting my name up not to do art.... i see nothing artist about scribles on electrical boxes and tosses on people personal stuff... dont get me wrong graffiti take up a BIG part in my life but yea...

graffiti stoped being art once it was taken out of the ghettos where it made it the dark depressing broken down walls ect into something colorful and gave kids hope and somthing to do instead of gang banging ect...

but i wanna see your everyones views on this, who know if might even help some people out with doing reports in school

ok im tired of hereing a whole bunch of toys trying to tell me graffiti is art, personally i think graffiti is vandlism.... im out for the distruction and getting my name up not to do art.... i see nothing artistic about scribles on electrical boxes and tosses on peoples personal stuff... dont get me wrong graffiti takes up a BIG part in my life but yea...

graffiti stoped being art once it was taken out of the ghettos where it made it the dark depressing broken down walls ect. into something colorful and gave kids hope and somthing to do instead of gang banging ect...

but i wanna see everyones view on this, who knows it might even help some people out with doing reports in school.

sorry im such a picky little bitch gesus

tre'tre'

01-26-2005, 04:38 PM

here some art for u guys

gesus those kids are just learning

i mean everyone has to start somewhere

infer one

01-26-2005, 04:40 PM

you know whats art?

preach

01-26-2005, 04:45 PM

i think webster's english dictionary says it all; vandalism is when someone's personal property is damaged or defaced.
therefore, there's no escaping the fact that yes, graffiti is vandalism!!
is it art? i think it can be both. if some guy is writing "SKOOL SUX" in a bathroom stall, thats vandalism, if a person breaks a store window, thats vandalism. i guess the answer to if it's art or not is in the eye of the beholder.

preach

01-26-2005, 04:51 PM

also, props to gesus for bringing up such an untouched question of values and beliefs

DNA

01-26-2005, 05:40 PM

had to go null vote. i mean those drippy tags and bombs on page 1, i dont think are art, but street "art" i think is art becuase it is more likely to brighten a random persons day than a real dirty tag. i mean seriuously people, put yourself in the postion of the average citezen, would you rather see a big clean stencil of a violinist on the corner or a dirty, drippy tag on a electrical box.

tre'tre'

01-26-2005, 05:58 PM

both

pSYKAOz

01-26-2005, 07:57 PM

nice point every1. no i take it back. nice points a select few.
haha

infer why the hell di u quote gesus' post n retype some parts? with added spelling mistakes? like wtf??? hahaha

but dont go saying my tags arent art. THEY ARE ART. thats not an opinion its a FACT. i made them. my creations are artistic. point finale! maybe yall tags arent art but mine are. so there!

humpf.

hahaha

Alchohlics_Anonymous

01-26-2005, 08:08 PM

Originally posted by GeSuS_KRiST+Jan 25 2005, 04:03 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (GeSuS_KRiST @ Jan 25 2005, 04:03 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-oblong@Jan 25 2005, 03:54 PM
personally i love destroying city property and other things in my city its just fun and gets me away from the rest of my life
[/b][/quote]
exact-a-mundo. :)

SLIK

01-26-2005, 08:24 PM

i would consider graffiti as an art if its a nice burner or production....but come on if scribbles on a wall or even toy tags arent considered arent then why are there murals of scribbles hanging on a museum wall.....or why is a mural made by an elephant considered to be art .... its just splashes of paint on canvas.....thas not art....any retard can do that......so to me graffiti is art and vandalism at the same time....

cricket

01-26-2005, 09:00 PM

Well I write because it pisses off my dad

GeSuS_KRiST

01-26-2005, 09:07 PM

Originally posted by Soar@Jan 26 2005, 03:04 PM
gesus, if your an open minded person, you won't take this offensively:

stop being ignorant.

now, if you are an open minded person, you would realize im not saying that to insult you or make you seem like a fool.

just because someone isn't skilled at art, dosen't make it not art. you're basically saying "that looks like shit, it takes no skill, and it is vandalism. therefore it isnt art"- which is an ignorant comment

theres nothing wrong with saying "that tag looks like fuckin shit, it sucks"

now, if you reply calling me a toy and telling me how much more you know than me, you'll just proove to me youre ignorant. but i'll give you more credit than that, because i think you're smart enough to realize i wasn't rippin on you by saying that, i'm just making an attempt to expand your mind
:lol: SHUT UP TOY IM BETTER THEN YOU ;)

but seriously i do see what your sayimg but there no way i will EVER call toy shit art yo, its just how i am once u get to a certin skill it becomes art till then its ugly

like im sorry yo but if u think toy shits art then i think u might be the one whos being one sided yea i was once a toy a few years ago did i ever consider what i did art no... i still dont think my GRAFF is art i admit other peoples night be heads like seak, totem, daim, daddy cool, i can go on forever with names but im not going to bottom line is toy stuff isnt art i never seen anything from you artwork wise... so i cant really say but if u havnt been writing for awhile u jsut might be blinded by the light... or u might be one of the type of people who sticks up for the lil man which is cool and all but what ever yo.. you and me will jsut have to agree too disagree... but i do want to know how and why u consider toy shit art?..... or if i miss took your post im sorry please make it into simple people terms if thats not what u were saying

GeSuS_KRiST

01-26-2005, 09:19 PM

Originally posted by glue@Jan 26 2005, 03:26 PM
exactly those people suck, they havce no artistic skill just becxause you do a piece doesnt mean its art it could suck horribly. seriously though ive never respected you on this shit seriously i respect little people on this site they know who they are. fuck you again.
lol first off kid you said it not me

"exactly those people suck, they havce no artistic skill just becxause you do a piece doesnt mean its art it could suck horribly"

so wait if you just totally jsut fucked over what your fighting over..... do that right threre PROVES thats not all graffiti is art.... i win u lose fuck off

"ive never respected you on this shit seriously i respect little people on this site they know who they are. fuck you again"

first off watch your fuckin mouth... i KNOW who i am, my whole city KNOWS who i am so do people other then my city.... just cas some kid in scarbrough(sp) who started graffiti what 2 years ago, dont respect me dont mean shit to me kid i dont care u dont respect me.... im resepcted by people who have been writing for 10 years and other SICK artist why would i fucking care what u think.... fuckin faggot

GeSuS_KRiST

01-26-2005, 09:32 PM

Originally posted by preach@Jan 26 2005, 05:51 PM
also, props to gesus for bringing up such an untouched question of values and beliefs
i just like to get into convo's where i get to voice my opinion alot

pSYKAOz

01-26-2005, 09:38 PM

i look at my toy ass tags from 3 yrs ago. i see art. i see very toy ass crappy art. but art none the less.

like totem does art no? its cool. but yo compare that to i duno.. .da vinci... hum... totems shit now looks easy n pretty simple... bah he busts pieces in a few days. da vinci spends 8 months on one lil painting. u just cant compare the skill levels... but are both art? figure it out yaselfs.

Shyd...

01-26-2005, 09:56 PM

art1 ( P ) Pronunciation Key (ärt)
n.
Human effort to imitate, supplement, alter, or counteract the work of nature.

The conscious production or arrangement of sounds, colors, forms, movements, or other elements in a manner that affects the sense of beauty, specifically the production of the beautiful in a graphic or plastic medium.
The study of these activities.
The product of these activities; human works of beauty considered as a group.
High quality of conception or execution, as found in works of beauty; aesthetic value.
A field or category of art, such as music, ballet, or literature.
A nonscientific branch of learning; one of the liberal arts.

A system of principles and methods employed in the performance of a set of activities: the art of building.
A trade or craft that applies such a system of principles and methods: the art of the lexicographer.

Skill that is attained by study, practice, or observation: the art of the baker; the blacksmith's art.
Skill arising from the exercise of intuitive faculties: “Self-criticism is an art not many are qualified to practice” (Joyce Carol Oates).

arts Artful devices, stratagems, and tricks.
Artful contrivance; cunning.
Printing. Illustrative material.

Curdosey(sp) Of: www.Dictionary.com

Soar

01-26-2005, 09:58 PM

i got more stuck on defending the priciples of "art" in general that actually this specific thing.. i just thought it was wrong of you to think of art in general like that.. but in this case, it's a fair judgement you have and there's not much more to say that that.

some people here are just fags thou

GeSuS_KRiST

01-26-2005, 10:40 PM

was that directed at me?

oblong

01-27-2005, 09:36 AM

i need to put some words in. first of all this thread is going great and getting some good discussion going. nice job gesus

alright most people that are old will only consider graffiti that is on paper or in a black book art just becasue it isnt costing them tax dollars to me removed around the city. but ont he other hand i have seen many adults who have complimented on filled throws just because they are amazed on how it happens.

for most adult once something hits the streets in their opinion they start to hate it becasue of the fact it was done illegally but on the other hand if they had seen a production go up they might compliment on the artistic skill and the tallen it took to put it up

i dony know if anyone is getting what im trying to say but i smoked alot of hash last night and i think im still wrecked

feedback!

edit.

dont get me wrong, i love destroying my city and it gets me away from the rest of my life, like school and other things i just dont want to think about at the time.
i had stated this earier but its still the truth and for most people its what drives them to do graffiti and destroy their city. :)

Whoa

01-27-2005, 10:05 AM

DONT TRUST GESUS
HE GOT ME HOOKED ON CRACK
http://img163.exs.cx/img163/1988/tyrone6xq.jpg

shyone

01-27-2005, 10:13 AM

Originally posted by GeSuS_KRiST@Jan 25 2005, 04:00 PM
http://www.graffiti.org/cfc/ish.jpg
http://img172.exs.cx/img172/1129/DSCF2027.jpg
http://img180.exs.cx/img180/1326/scarymofosofar0sd.jpg
http://img180.exs.cx/img180/4864/scarydone7tu.jpg
ok thats art
----
but how is this art is what im wondering?

http://img180.exs.cx/img180/8458/00065gp.jpg
http://img180.exs.cx/img180/439/dsc00144jpg3vk.jpg
you should rephrase you question, tags arnt art, pieces and stuff are.. just graffiti is to broader term i think

Soar

01-27-2005, 11:06 AM

Originally posted by GeSuS_KRiST@Jan 26 2005, 11:40 PM
was that directed at me?
no your cool

dageotb

01-27-2005, 11:43 AM

i hear you bro my girl went out of state and my son had my tags on his note book and her cousin said that was artist art on the note book and my girl look at her as she is crazy!!!!!!yes some writer have very nice hand skill's and real cool throws ups even funky style burner's but i say as it all the same thing every were is art or not to be art that is the real question

"LIMIT"

01-27-2005, 12:01 PM

Originally posted by shyone+Jan 27 2005, 11:13 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (shyone @ Jan 27 2005, 11:13 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-GeSuS_KRiST@Jan 25 2005, 04:00 PM
http://www.graffiti.org/cfc/ish.jpg
http://img172.exs.cx/img172/1129/DSCF2027.jpg
http://img180.exs.cx/img180/1326/scarymofosofar0sd.jpg
http://img180.exs.cx/img180/4864/scarydone7tu.jpg
ok thats art
----
but how is this art is what im wondering?

http://img180.exs.cx/img180/8458/00065gp.jpg
http://img180.exs.cx/img180/439/dsc00144jpg3vk.jpg
you should rephrase you question, tags arnt art, pieces and stuff are.. just graffiti is to broader term i think [/b][/quote]
No, even tags and hands is art, why?, because the handstyle is the most simple representation of graffiti, so, graffiti = art, hands = art.

Soar

01-27-2005, 12:05 PM

what it comes down to, if you want it to be art it can be- as can almost anything in the world.. if you don't want it to be an art, than that's your decision.

GeSuS_KRiST

01-27-2005, 01:50 PM

you should rephrase you question, tags arnt art, pieces and stuff are.. just graffiti is to broader term i think
No, even tags and hands is art, why?, because the handstyle is the most simple representation of graffiti, so, graffiti = art, hands = art.[/QUOTE]

get a few years in the game and then tell me handstyle are art man... VERY few people have handstyles that are artistic.... heads liek recka(sp), joker, alot of the wildstyle tech. do... but just regular hands naw man like i said before i get what psykaoz is saying and all i mean even justed on a canvas PROPERLY it can be art but i dont know what ever i cant change your mind and you wont be able to change mine

-------------
and Whoa

BEST POST EVER!!!!

shyone

01-27-2005, 02:03 PM

Originally posted by Soar@Jan 27 2005, 01:05 PM
what it comes down to, if you want it to be art it can be- as can almost anything in the world.. if you don't want it to be an art, than that's your decision.
word....i totally agree with that.one of the best posts i have seen...i kinda subcotioously thought that myself i think...but nice :blink:

Whoa

01-27-2005, 02:40 PM

its all about Gesus and Whoa

if you dont know us
you aint shit

WORD IS BORN

*where did i leave my cigarette?

GeSuS_KRiST

01-27-2005, 02:51 PM

last time i seen um is when u where with that underage hooker, maybe she took um

BOMBING ISNT ART DAMN IT

Whoa

01-27-2005, 02:54 PM

if i took her age and reveresed the number she is perfectly legal
she said 21
i said ok
then i went down on her
bitch stoled my cigarettes
Thank god i dont smoke

and i agree

bombing isnt art
im art
im whoa

juc}}

01-27-2005, 06:46 PM

i think some trowups are art. ;)

"awesome"ONE

01-27-2005, 06:55 PM

Okay this is how it is, if graffiti is done LEGALLY, mark my words LEGALLY of course it's art, bombing, tagging, peicing any kind of stlye that takes some kind of skill or thought is considered art. If graffiti's drawn, painted or marked of any kind on some kind of property that's not yours it immediatly falls under vandalism. Police don't care if it took some skill or what it looks like or what its style is, or what art it is for that matter, they go by if it's illegally done, it's freaking vandalism. It has nothing to do with what style looks nicer or if it's bombing or if it is more elaborate or took more time. Bombing, peicing, and tagging can both be art if they are done legally. It's as simple as that.

clever1

01-27-2005, 07:50 PM

art·ist ( P ) Pronunciation Key (ärtst)
n.
One, such as a painter, sculptor, or writer, who is able by virtue of imagination and talent or skill to create works of aesthetic value, especially in the fine arts.
A person whose work shows exceptional creative ability or skill: You are an artist in the kitchen.

yes i beleive graffiti is a form of art,,,

I just learned that graffiti is also the plural form..."graffito" is the singular form

"Usage Note: The word graffiti is a plural noun in Italian. In English graffiti is far more common than the singular form graffito and is mainly used as a singular noun in much the same way data is. When the reference is to a particular inscription (as in There was a bold graffiti on the wall), the form graffito would be etymologically correct but might strike some readers as pedantic outside an archaeological context. There is no substitute for the singular use of graffiti when the word is used as a mass noun to refer to inscriptions in general or to the related social phenomenon. The sentence Graffiti is a major problem for the Transit Authority Police cannot be reworded Graffito is... (since graffito can refer only to a particular inscription) or Graffiti are... (which suggests that the police problem involves only the physical marks and not the larger issue of vandalism). In such contexts, the use of graffiti as a singular is justified by both utility and widespread precedent."

thought id let you know,,,cuz i didn't.

www.dictionary.com

LOSTxTHExFAITH

01-27-2005, 10:15 PM

Man I made a thread similar to this one, very similar like maybe 7 or 8 months ago before I quit coming here. The problem the majority of the bombing sci. community doesn't have any real notion or can distinguish what art or graff is cause they suck at both. So...

GeSuS_KRiST

01-27-2005, 10:18 PM

yea in know that why i was happy u posted somthing i feel the same way alot of kids on here dont even know of big crews/ writers other then seen and cope2

Adamo

01-27-2005, 10:31 PM

dunno how i found this...but its the forum for TRAINS.COM...their talking about graffiti on freights as art or vandalism too. Altough most of them aren't dumb, some say they see it as, and i quote ""Tags" and also a "Language" from individuals and gangs denoting terriotory, kill zones etc. I view it as vandalism, and when I travel, I see it as words telling us to stay out of the area."

http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topi...12463&results=1 (http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=12463&results=1)

SLIK

01-27-2005, 10:32 PM

wat about zeph and dondi....if u dont know them then ... u know.... or UAC,SA,SBA,TCF ..... u should know zeph and dondi even if ur a toy....

LOSTxTHExFAITH

01-27-2005, 10:39 PM

Dropping names like that makes YOU look like a toy... Some shit is evident, other shit is obvious. You stating the OBVIOUS is a desperate attempt to make yourself look graff literate..

GeSuS_KRiST

01-27-2005, 10:45 PM

couldnt of said that any better i have meet a number of big named artist talk to a few and u dont see droping name...

**MATEO**

01-28-2005, 11:00 AM

it depends what kind of graff like peices and stuff r art but then there is faggs that write fuck you thats not art

CUMO732

01-28-2005, 12:47 PM

n. pl. graf·fi·ti (-t)
A drawing or inscription made on a wall or other surface, usually so as to be seen by the public. Often used in the plural.

GeSuS_KRiST

01-28-2005, 01:15 PM

con grats you looked up a word..... u just earned 10 power up toy points

CUMO732

01-28-2005, 01:21 PM

Originally posted by GeSuS_KRiST@Jan 28 2005, 02:15 PM
con grats you looked up a word..... u just earned 10 power up toy points
i voted 2 :blink:

GeSuS_KRiST

01-28-2005, 01:27 PM

*slams gavle down* OVER RULED 10 and that my final offer

CUMO732

01-28-2005, 01:43 PM

Originally posted by GeSuS_KRiST@Jan 28 2005, 02:27 PM
*slams gavle down* OVER RULED 10 and that my final offer
:( but but... *drops to kness* I VOTED I I I VOTED!!!! *graffiti police carry me away*

**MATEO**

01-28-2005, 01:48 PM

ur name is galve?

CUMO732

01-28-2005, 01:49 PM

Originally posted by **MATEO**@Jan 28 2005, 02:48 PM
ur name is galve?
LOL!!!!

**MATEO**

01-28-2005, 01:52 PM

Originally posted by CUMO732+Jan 28 2005, 02:49 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (CUMO732 @ Jan 28 2005, 02:49 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-**MATEO**@Jan 28 2005, 02:48 PM
ur name is galve?
LOL!!!! [/b][/quote]
gavle galve .....wat ever.....anwser my question

Alchohlics_Anonymous

01-28-2005, 09:58 PM

god dammit mateo, no one wants to see you as a kid. even back then u looked like a fag. and no, i dont think graffiti is art. theres no way it can be unless its on a canvas, or a legal wall.

"awesome"ONE

01-28-2005, 10:58 PM

thank you Alchaholics Anonymous!!!!!, what i've been trying to say the whole time.

SALVO

01-28-2005, 11:04 PM

Graffiti being an art doesn't really change it, people are still going to hate it while others may take interest in it. Graffiti will always be illegal otherwise I wouldn't even bother with it. You're fucking up someones property...its not that complex

"awesome"ONE

01-28-2005, 11:13 PM

that's true that there are always going to be people who hate it, that's with all art though, some people love it and others consider it garbage, that's just how art is

Soar

01-29-2005, 03:41 PM

Originally posted by SALVO@Jan 29 2005, 12:04 AM
Graffiti being an art doesn't really change it, people are still going to hate it while others may take interest in it. Graffiti will always be illegal otherwise I wouldn't even bother with it. You're fucking up someones property...its not that complex
it's only complex if you want it to be.

ehobo

01-30-2005, 08:38 AM

Originally posted by Alchohlics_Anonymous@Jan 28 2005, 10:58 PM
god dammit mateo, no one wants to see you as a kid. even back then u looked like a fag. and no
actuly u look like a fag

CaptSnuffy

01-30-2005, 01:52 PM

personally i think graffiti can be art, it jst depends on your mentality and what you're making it for. If you're trying to express yourself or send a message then it is.

Does it really make a difference though?

"awesome"ONE

01-30-2005, 10:42 PM

ha ya, I guess it makes a difference if you want to respond in this thread

_____JEKLROKS_____

01-30-2005, 11:06 PM

"piss on permission walls" haha my J got stuck in my keyboard and melted the S button.

pogopope

02-03-2005, 09:35 PM

Originally posted by Alchohlics_Anonymous@Jan 28 2005, 10:58 PM
god dammit mateo, no one wants to see you as a kid. even back then u looked like a fag. and no, i dont think graffiti is art. theres no way it can be unless its on a canvas, or a legal wall.
its not even him back in 96. if hes 13 now, that would make him 4 back in 96, and he looks about 11 in that pic

moh.vze.com

02-03-2005, 09:40 PM

grafiti is for self pleasure its not to wow the ppl who live nearby. Its for your self. its a self pleasure art

Its vandalism..
graffiti takes time and effort which art is but if they think there artist why r they on the streets vandalizing

its vandalism to someone who doesnt understand it or didnt do it or not friends with the person who made it

it is annoying theres tons of it in my neighborhood. it tags my hood as a crip hood or a blood hood or a sureno hood.
Its puting people in danger. You could be driving in the freeway and you look up and see a Grafiti on the freeway signs. By looking up you are being distracted and would cause you to drive off the road into an accident. Grafitii is puting lives in danger.

Why its art..
Anything that expresses someones views or ideas is art. whether its in drawing, painting, music or in this case graphtii. art is an idea a concept of ones thinking which is brought to life through visual or sound

Yea its a crime, and? what about it? what is cheaper buying a set of paint, brushes, canvas, a stand OR a spray can for $3? i mean seriously, most of the kids who do this dont got money to flaunt on stuff like that

GeSuS_KRiST

02-04-2005, 01:28 AM

nice point, i do feel its vandlism and i do do graffiti and i know people who do it, and i understand its so its not totally true but a good point none the less... glad someone else decided to drop some knowlege

calmlikeabomb

02-04-2005, 01:39 AM

graffiti is vandalism, unless you have authorization to do the piece you are doing....but at the same time, graffiti is a form of expression, wich makes it a form of art.....

"awesome"ONE

02-05-2005, 11:37 AM

The guy who said people do graffiti for self pleasure, that's a huge opinion, some people do it for self pleasure and for people to see and admire their work. One other thing too, it's art cause your showing people your style and what you think as a way of communication which is what arts all about. "Graffiti Art" on illegal stuff is vandalism

**MATEO**

02-05-2005, 02:12 PM

Alchohlics_Anonymous

02-05-2005, 05:46 PM

some of that graff behind u tho is better than the shit u do today. hurry up and change it already!! god dammit...

"awesome"ONE

02-11-2005, 08:00 PM

I guess it's time this thread came to an end

Slob

02-11-2005, 09:02 PM

graffiti is an art in most forms.

if its taggs on a wall done by a toy writer, it looks like vandalism.

most tags look like shit tho. and vandalism is what they are seen as, most people only see this aspect of graffiti cuz so many fucks are out there taggin every fucking thing they see.

when someone actually takes the time to do a piece it is artistic. most characters are recognized as art. but bombs and shit are just getting up, mostly that part is vandalism. it also has a huge deal with where the shit is.

and i fucked your mother

element503

04-30-2005, 08:40 PM

Originally posted by GeSuS_KRiST@Jan 25 2005, 12:28 PM
...and gave kids hope and somthing to do instead of gang banging ect...
some graffiti has gang banging involved but in my neighborhood its just crews. except for 13street LMV

snore

05-01-2005, 02:01 PM

i think peicing is art.. for some street bombing is but not for me..i agree with gesus,the stunt is more fun than the look,even though it is fun to look at some good stuff,i just stck to bombing.

snore

05-01-2005, 02:02 PM

Originally posted by Slob@Feb 11 2005, 10:02 PM
graffiti is an art in most forms.

if its taggs on a wall done by a toy writer, it looks like vandalism.

most tags look like shit tho. and vandalism is what they are seen as, most people only see this aspect of graffiti cuz so many fucks are out there taggin every fucking thing they see.

when someone actually takes the time to do a piece it is artistic. most characters are recognized as art. but bombs and shit are just getting up, mostly that part is vandalism. it also has a huge deal with where the shit is.

and i fucked your mother
well said, I agree

Nesty

05-01-2005, 02:11 PM

i don't understand why it has to be graffiti OR vandalism...why can't i t be both?

on a side note, i personally can't think of anything in the entire universe that isn't art.

westcoastbomber

05-01-2005, 02:27 PM

word nesty

Danny Tanner

05-01-2005, 03:19 PM

graffiti is vandalism. by deffinition. otherwise it would be art.

my dog comet caught a tagger once running through our backyard. boy did he go to town on that poor hispanic boy. i knew we should have had that dog fixed.

sorce oner

05-01-2005, 03:23 PM

i think it has both sides .some of it is art but some of it isnt

Nesty

05-01-2005, 04:44 PM

also from a more practictical veiwpoint, i think that the creater of the art/vandalism is the only one with the authority to judge wheter something is art or not

Ume

05-01-2005, 04:46 PM

Originally posted by Nesty@May 1 2005, 02:11 PM
on a side note, i personally can't think of anything in the entire universe that isn't art.
exactly, it's just in the eye of the beholder.

tkS`

05-01-2005, 04:46 PM

anyways graffiti is art + vandalism

ASEN

05-06-2005, 11:00 AM

yeah, art, vandalism... close this. who fucking cares.

Spitz

05-06-2005, 11:01 AM

Originally posted by Nesty@May 1 2005, 01:11 PM
i don't understand why it has to be graffiti OR vandalism...why can't i t be both?

on a side note, i personally can't think of anything in the entire universe that isn't art.
Im with him. It can be fun to destroy stuff, but make your destruction of that wall into a good looking, artistic destruction

rent519

05-06-2005, 01:16 PM

i think some forms of graffiti is art but alot of it isnt...i mean tags bombs throws...thats just advertisement if u think about it .....chars. n pieces u could say is art...anyone can pick up a can n hit up some throws on a wall but you cant be just anyone n take a bunch of cans do a piece n character on a wall make people look at it in admiration i mean shit thats where i myself see graffiti as art but this bombin tag shit is just vandalism no matter what anyone thinks.

Klone

05-06-2005, 03:42 PM

think of it this way..people who have tattoos on their arms is considerred art. The person behind the drawing is an artists who basically came to post up art on you. Turning your ordinary everday skin, to something artistic. Same thing with graffiti. Bulidings, Trains, w/e it may be, consider that someone's arm or w/e and your the person just posting up art.

But on the flipside, like say Tags, Throws, w/e it may be, Thas more like getting your name out there. I guess..

name1

05-06-2005, 03:48 PM

what a stupid debate

its like rectangle and squares.

a square has to be a rectangle.

but a rectangle doesnt have to be a square.

you loose some of the art when the risk is increased.

you gain some of the art, by decreasing the risk

and at the same time, (to writers) you gain art by adding risk.

its a giant equation. i think its alot of things and that is the beauty of graffiti.

i dont know if talking it to death does anything.

besides beating a dead hose. which i have always yearned todo inreal life. so i do it gammatically.

all i actually know about graffiti is thatit is much bigger then any of us. muchbigger then gesus. talk it to death and prophesize your BS on BS. but your still nothin but a tiny nothing in the giant graf world

Skop

05-06-2005, 06:18 PM

To ends ends graffiti is vandalism, simple as that. Unless your doing a legal wall, than it's art.

R.F.

05-06-2005, 08:03 PM

its just as much art as warhol or jasper, heck...jaspers is made of garbage an whatnot. its like this, at first people were like whaaaaaaaatt?, and now they are like niccccccee!

Klone

05-07-2005, 11:25 AM

^^^^I know right..i saww this one art thing on TV...it was stool with a fuckin wheel spinning on stop of it..it's being sold for like 3 Million..im like..wtf???? I could do that at home..

skrooeapatape

05-07-2005, 11:32 AM

"ART" can be stretched to just about anything.. any graffiti marking design no matter how it looks CAN be considered art.. usually the general public condiders the pieces art.. but they see it as art more on the color poeerhaps the design but the design is what we can see as nice (letter strucure etc) cause public has a hard time distingusign between toy and good bombing wise.. then again thats also subjective for grafffiti writers but theres still the common good bad.. anyway

Done illegally which is what makes graffiti graffiti i diont think "legal walls" would be consider graffiti if they didnt resemble illegal ish... anbd so there it ca be considered vandalism and can be considered art whether its nioce or not.. people lie it or not.. you can call pretty much any intentional (or not) design art... whether it loooks appealing is another thing.. the Art of Vandalism.. but actually i can argue that graffiti is not candalism (which i wouldnt reallly have cared to do) but upon examiniation of the defifntion and based on an assumption i have which i think is valid in the general graffiti is technilclyy not vandalsim going by the common defintion of va (if you adhere to my assumption) whuich i didnt say.. other wise i guess can be considered vandalism especailly sinc the public cant see the assupmtion (which im not saying in this message) at relaytivley soon siught and thought id say its obviously both when you look at who it effects.. well or not vandalism to you and not art to them.. the word arts annoying tho prefer style generally.. anyway and like i said i can agrue why graffiti isnt vandalism see if you guys can give good reason why it wouldnt..

Molotov Monkey

05-07-2005, 02:24 PM

I see graffiti as a form of self-expression. It's definately an art form to me.

skrooeapatape

05-07-2005, 11:43 PM

No, even tags and hands is art, why?, because the handstyle is the most simple representation of graffiti, so, graffiti = art, hands = art."

I agree but your just begging the question there.. (art or not theres an attraction we see)

SmileAtDeath

05-07-2005, 11:50 PM

graffiti is gay.

skrooeapatape

05-08-2005, 12:18 AM

yes indeed (btw iddint write that was trying to quote^^)

skateparadise

05-12-2005, 12:36 PM

bump this thread for the kid who cant search... there are ALOT of replies abotu this you can add to your paper.

EZY

05-15-2005, 05:27 PM

Yes graffiti is art in 1 perspective, its art in perspective that u do it on canvasse, bored and do it for a living ect, its art coz ur takin somthin ugly and plain and turn it into a color peice of art but yes its also vandalisum its illegal its not ur property u can be jailed its a crime its vandalisum yes there 2 sides to the graff scene

DaysOfLilQuami

05-21-2005, 07:41 PM

of course graffiti is art, any way you can express yourself is art, anyone who thinks graffiti isnt art probobly has no syle whatsoever and is as uniform as hell, you write different ways in different moods, different places, even if you write the same thing, same style, its expression, expressing to everyone your thoughts and feelings, but yeah, its definately art

DaysOfLilQuami

05-21-2005, 07:43 PM

oh yeah, anotherthing, people writing the destrucction is fun or whatever, are you kidding, its not destruction, its creation

iwa

05-25-2005, 04:56 PM

graffiti is art becoz like all other art forms it is an expression of your feelings and emotions etc. yes it may also be vandalism but why be a servant to the law when you can be its master

_____JEKLROKS_____

05-26-2005, 04:48 AM

A giant half man half chicken?

mr. she77

05-26-2005, 12:41 PM

its as simple as this...

if someone who does NOT write graffiti says, "graffiti is Art", then...
No, Graffiti is not art.
if someone who does NOT write graffiti says, "graffiti is vandalism", then...
No, graffiti is art.

AK47_KNOC

05-26-2005, 03:50 PM

it is art period. even taggs why do u think ppl write taggs in the bbook for hours perfecting it. even more of an art is pieces. its all art. if your doin it to fuck shit up ur doin it for the wrong reason, get the fuck out.

infer_two

05-27-2005, 12:40 AM

a little of both.

THANKful AKIH

08-17-2005, 10:50 PM

Man its all about self expresstion if you go out not to vandeliz but to show your artwork aka the graff you been writin then thats straigt up art on the other hand if your intenstions are to wreck somethin on purpose that wouldnt be art becuase its ment to show the negetivity of your expresstion towards the thing you are sprayin.
Thats my opinion.

AKalien

08-18-2005, 02:00 AM

World class graff(like kings of new york)is art but toy graff and gang graff is just like taking a shit and throwing it at a wall.

It takes skill and creativity but it also teaches quick thinking, exercise from running with 2 tons of cans on you, and some other stuff i can't explain.

it depends on the graff tho and how good it is

lazy politicians were the first to try to debate whether it's art or not

southgate

08-18-2005, 09:05 AM

OF COURSE GRAFFITI IS ART GRAFFITI IS URBAN STREET ART

ACE

08-18-2005, 02:56 PM

If your all about just running around and tagging shit up, then I don't consider that art. But if you sittiin in your room working on a completely new letter style or something like that and you go out and do pieces then yea thats art. Its all just depends on how much you let it impact your life and how far you wanna take it. Depends on who you ask.

>SM!7K<

08-18-2005, 09:56 PM

hey, does anyone have the website, to is this art or vandalism?
of have a picture of something along those lines...

Thanks

FatMasterSlim

08-18-2005, 10:30 PM

I didnt have the time to read this whole thread but I have to say that graffiti in it self, not on a wall, not on private property is a art. But as soon as you put graffiti into its true element going out bombing, taggin, stickering its a crime thats the bottom ass line. No matter how strongly you feel about your passion graffiti is a crime. An art? yes on canvas, on permissioned walls, but the bottom line is once its put on someone elses property it looses its so called innocence and the label of crime merely falls over it entierly...

dont get me wrong I love bombing but I understand what Im doing...

FAT

snow2skate

08-18-2005, 10:39 PM

Look at my signature, Is that not a form of art? all normal artists who dont do graffiti, still have stylized letters in lots of there work, and thats all graffiti really is, is styled letters..it is art. If it wasnt an art,,then youd see begginners throwin pro can2 styles and all that shit on the wall. but you dont, because its and art, and an art takes practice to get good at..and you practice to get good at something you dont beleive is art? well thats just wrong then,, if you dont think its art. then why try and get better at it?

theyrecominafterme

08-19-2005, 01:37 AM

YES... anyone who thinks otherwise needs to be hit in the head till persuaded otherwise

end of discussion

the walking std

08-26-2005, 01:10 PM

graffiti is an art the same way karate and shit is an art, if you dont know what youre doing it looks like shit and gets you nowhere, but the longer you practice it and hone it you can fuck some shit up! and use pretty and cute colors doing it.

Crack Killz

08-26-2005, 01:19 PM

If you're a picer it's art...

if you're a bomber...

its vandalisim...

Get with the fucking program people.

Nesty

08-26-2005, 04:04 PM

But as soon as you put graffiti into its true element going out bombing, taggin, stickering its a crime thats the bottom ass line. No matter how strongly you feel about your passion graffiti is a crime. An art? yes on canvas, on permissioned walls, but the bottom line is once its put on someone elses property it looses its so called innocence and the label of crime merely falls over it entierly...

Here's something a lot of you need to realize:

This is not a 'one or the other' decision!

Just because something is illegal does NOT negate the fact that it's an artform. That's ridiculous, the law has nothing to do with whether something is art or not. Even if it did this arguement would still fall flat. The goverrnment should never have the authority over any of you to determine your beliefs for you. If you lived in the 1700's, would you argue that slavery is okay because the government said so? I would hope not.

Another thing, the material graffiti is on is totally irrelevent. Is their not the same ammount of work or creativity needed to piece on a wall as is required on paper? It's the same thing.

snow2skate

08-26-2005, 04:07 PM

So true.

cess!

08-26-2005, 07:52 PM

Originally posted by Crack Killz@Aug 26 2005, 02:19 PM
If you're a picer it's art...

if you're a bomber...

its vandalisim...

Get with the fucking program people.
piecing is vandalism too bud

and bombs just like piecing..take a fuckin long time to come up with something lookin fresh and original
if you dont think bombing counts as art you need to bomb more

Vulture

09-14-2005, 04:36 PM

wachu mean iz graff art? courze it iz. If a dude can run around wit dildoz straped ta his azz and call it art graffin can be art to

ACTION NEWS...

09-14-2005, 05:39 PM

Artism.

GLOKnine

09-14-2005, 07:13 PM

i think its both, so im not gunna vote... u gotta have an artistic talent to do graffiti and u fuck up shit while doing graffiti if that makes sense

Krylon bomber

09-14-2005, 07:41 PM

graffiti is an art and a crime.

-resq-love-obk-

09-14-2005, 10:23 PM

hell yea its art. listen to the guy talking about whoever the fuck is painting the train in mib3 or 2 i dont know but he just makes it sound awesome...
"look at that look, one flick of the hand and look what he does. ...artist."

Mute1

09-15-2005, 08:32 PM

Really, graffiti is not vandalism at all. Vandalism means destroying something. If you paint on a wall, is it destroyed? Not at all. Is it even damaged? Nope. It's just the same old wall, still works well, just has graffiti painted on it. If people didn't give a fuck and never cleaned graffiti up, then the vandalism part doesn't exist. It's just cause people feel the need to cover up all graffiti since it's been wired into our minds as being criminal and gang related shit. Smashing windows? Now thats vandalism.

GeSuS_KRiST

09-15-2005, 08:37 PM

what happens when you go bombing with etch an shit like then then isnt it vandlism?

JadedSketches

09-15-2005, 08:47 PM

Technically,everything that falls under Graffiti is Vandalism,and Art.
So what if a scratchie or a bomb arent as colourful and complicated as a piece?Since when does Art have rules?If a dress made of meat,a painting of three coloured lines(which sold for several thousand dollars) and blood splashed onto canvas is considered Art,then why wouldnt all aspects of Graffiti
be considered art too? Bottom line, All Graffiti is Art,All Graffiti is Vandalism.
think of it as "artisitic vandalism".
Hey atleast we arent breaking windows,we just redecorate walls.

__:Amok:_

09-15-2005, 09:10 PM

I think graffiti is watever u want it to be. Its self expression. If u hate the world and wanna vandalize ppls shit. then its vandalism. If u think ur a good artist and want to force ppl to see ur art. its art. Thats how i see it. Everyone has different motives and perspectives. Obviously some ppl have no art talent at all and they "Graffiti". So i would say graffiti doesnt have to be art if u dont want it to. But there is graffiti art.

//amok

369

09-16-2005, 01:11 AM

pieces is art. but just tags is vandalism... either waty its still illegal

swich

09-16-2005, 01:23 AM

^ nah....tags are art too... its a form of calligraphy isnt it? all forms of graffiti are art, i dont give a fuck what you say. yall think its either art or vandilism well i say, why cant it be both? graffiti is art whether you accept or not, it doesnt matter...

shineONE

09-16-2005, 01:27 AM

heres my opinion....if ur piecing or maybe bombing[or even throwies] then its definitly art(unless its shit). if u just go around tagging its not really art. sum1 said on here that tagging is art and i get wot u mean. it has to flow and look good so it mite be

-AbSrD

09-16-2005, 02:12 AM

ehhh tough question man, i think... graffiti dosen't have 2 be either... its kinda like a secret language of our own only we know, kinda like some sort of secret society code, which it really isnt. Obviously it's gonna have some artistic merit, and im thankful for that, it gives a good outlet for one to create, i mean im hardly good, but i get a satisfaction like no other just creating this shit, even if its only sub-par, i think someday i could get really creative. but thats not the point at all. as for being vandalism im glad its got that edge 2 it as well. It wouldn't be the same if it wasn't frowned upon by all the fuckin pillars of society im sure we can all agree are completely fake... when im an adult im gonna look back n be proud that i did it while i could. you know? whether its graffiti or art, who cares, it's about us, and why not be part of something great like this instead of just being another bored tired fuckin dregs pf society. my 2 cents.

theJet

09-16-2005, 04:48 PM

good graf requires a certain amount of artistic abilities.
taggin for example can be concidered very artistic when on paper but when its reproduced so quickly all over the place it gets ugly.
throw ups too. maybe it just has to do with what you use.i find paint doesnt look nearly as good as on paper. unless yr pro...

wildstyle, murals, (most) full trains/walls, etc are def art.
tags(on the street), throws, and peices often arent even attractive to those who dont know the writer or who arnt the writer himself.

idk

metro 519

09-16-2005, 06:00 PM

so i guess there is a difference between graffiti ARTIST and graffiti WRITERS...

Nor(noar)

09-16-2005, 06:21 PM

:ph34r: WHAT KID

oNiMaFiA

09-16-2005, 06:34 PM

okokok if you dont consider all graff an art as well as a lifestyle, you are not a writer.
ok, i know me some vatos, get dro low for the capo, okay muchacho, put your snot hoe in a pothole.

$NAKE$

09-16-2005, 09:44 PM

pieces are art forsure. everything else is damage. :lol:

Vulture

09-16-2005, 11:26 PM

Originally posted by oNiMaFiA@Sep 16 2005, 06:34 PM
okokok if you dont consider all graff an art as well as a lifestyle, you are not a writer.
ok, i know me some vatos, get dro low for the capo, okay muchacho, put your snot hoe in a pothole.
this aint the freestyle rap thread :D

usted habla espanol? mi familia entera es hispanica a excepcion de mi, im un whiteboy

tusk_uk

09-17-2005, 04:31 AM

Yes i fnk graf is art.. but u gotta apreciate it or u'll fnk its a bunch of fukin crazy scribbles from kids....
i ask'd a few peopz, dey fnk its art but also somthin 2 be ghetto i was like :angry: peopl graf 4 art more fuker.....

but wat do u wnt clear walls no graf if dere was no graff i'd go crazy

! PrOPeRr ! .aOk.cRu.

09-17-2005, 09:27 AM

Originally posted by GeSuS_KRiST@Jan 25 2005, 02:28 PM
ok im tired of here a whole bunch of toys try to tell me graffiti is art, personally i think graffiti is vandlism.... im out for the distruction and getting my name up not to do art.... i see nothing artist about scribles on electrical boxes and tosses on people personal stuff... dont get me wrong graffiti take up a BIG part in my life but yea...

graffiti stoped being art once it was taken out of the ghettos where it made it the dark depressing broken down walls ect into something colorful and gave kids hope and somthing to do instead of gang banging ect...

but i wanna see your everyones views on this, who know if might even help some people out with doing reports in school

graff is art, cus it takes artistic skills to b a new name in the graff world. althouh it is fun writin on walls, graff is still ART, wha else can it be? yu need to have a shading tech, colorin sheme, nice feel for objects/things around yu to even make a piece look good which they teach in ART CLASSES.

Vulture

09-17-2005, 09:51 AM

how many people here are actually from a ghetto? ive been here my whole life, the only time graff is vandalism is if the person doin it is just doin it ta fuck around and piss people off but that usualy also leads ta broken car windows and shit, but everyone here does it ta show art with style or ta represent they set. You can tell if a person is just fuckin round they write like "fuck you pigs" and shit like that without barely puttin in design or anything

its easy ta tell

u never see me and my crew dissin anyone else as much, its ta show what were made of

Havoc411

09-19-2005, 08:52 PM

i aint no art fag, so i guess its vandalism

it-cant-rain-all-the-timelalala

09-19-2005, 11:05 PM

i could ask "what is art"
but i know most of the answers...so ill give an exemple...
lets name art forms...

painting
music
sports
photo
theater
woodwork
webdesigning
etc,etc,etc

so if someone is out there for fame is it less considered art... in music for exemple
maybe it is art because he expresses something trough creation...isnt'it(his will to
become a star)?
could someone possibly express nothing trough creation...not even the fact that he
doesnt want to express???
i want to say that "art is an act of the conscious being"
it is pretty large i admit...and easily refutable...so go ahead...

JadedSketches

09-20-2005, 08:09 PM

Fuck You.Fuck Bombing Science.Fuck the World.Fuck Everything.
Write On Walls,Fuck Everything Else.

Escape

09-21-2005, 01:11 PM

To me graffiti (in terms of hip-hop graffiti, our type of writing, not just some fucktard writing stupidness on a wall) is definetly both art and vandalism. Im' going to make the assumption that most people accept piecing as art, so in defense of bombing and tagging. Bombing to me is definetly art, letter structure, drop shadows outlining colour selection, all of this matters. Even if a person puts up a hollow, tehre is still quite a bit of artistic quality that goes into it, and bombers spend plenty of time making sure their throwie has "flow" and it's aestheticly peasing to look at, if it's not then you're just getting your name out and also getting a bad rep.

Anyways i think it comes down to tagging that's really at question here, alotta people are saying how the hell can hitting a mailbox be art. But i definetly feel that it is. With the amount of practice and handstyles that go in to tagging, i see it easy to compare tagging to doing calligraphy. Calligraphy is highly respected in many cultures especially japanese, which i actually looked to a couple times when trying to learn how to make my tag flow. Now there are tons of different types of calligraphy as tehre are tons of different types of handstlyes. And well yea i got my point across, i see direct links between tagging and calligraphy.

Now on the vandalism side of things, yes it's ALL vandalism, but there isn't anything that says vandalism can't also be art.