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EST2007
12-11-2009, 09:49 PM
you ready yet home boy. Been waitin on you for a minute. Lets hurry this shit up.
well according to your last msg, deadline was midnight tonight.

But since you're awfully impatient, here yah go:

Mine:
http://photos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs070.snc3/13764_596428375729_13806028_35168676_8061552_n.jpg
vinnie paz:
http://hphotos-snc3.fbcdn.net/hs070.snc3/13764_596428380719_13806028_35168677_7814869_n.jpg
smooth

AteskOne
12-11-2009, 09:55 PM
haha i like how you knew you werent gunna beat me so you let someone better than you get down on our battle. i was gunna set up a different battle with vinnie but whatever if thats how you wanna play. poll will be up soon enough.

TheToy
12-11-2009, 11:22 PM
Just caught some quick throws and two pieces crossin' through the city via railroad. Cold and windy. You can see how much the wind was blowin' on some of that blue fill on the two pieces.
Been seein' a lot of this 'E' thrown around here lately so I wanted to try it out.

http://www.bombingscience.com/graffitiforum/picture.php?albumid=365&pictureid=2814
http://www.bombingscience.com/graffitiforum/picture.php?albumid=365&pictureid=2816
http://www.bombingscience.com/graffitiforum/picture.php?albumid=365&pictureid=2817
http://www.bombingscience.com/graffitiforum/picture.php?albumid=365&pictureid=2815

faser
12-11-2009, 11:27 PM
thetoy - that E looks ugly and doesn't flow

http://i49.tinypic.com/wt64gi.jpg

couldnt think of a J (crits on letters)..... bit shaky too oh well

SCOPE2
12-11-2009, 11:49 PM
that e is better than the other one..id say work on it a lil and i like it.. its pretty dope. rewt. good shit. keep bombing.

AteskOne
12-12-2009, 02:05 AM
for the throwy battle. go cast your vote in the toy battle forum.
http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/5198/scan0009j.jpg (http://img690.imageshack.us/i/scan0009j.jpg/)

KaSo
12-12-2009, 06:19 AM
Just caught some quick throws and two pieces crossin' through the city via railroad. Cold and windy. You can see how much the wind was blowin' on some of that blue fill on the two pieces.
Been seein' a lot of this 'E' thrown around here lately so I wanted to try it out.

http://www.bombingscience.com/graffitiforum/picture.php?albumid=365&pictureid=2814
http://www.bombingscience.com/graffitiforum/picture.php?albumid=365&pictureid=2816
http://www.bombingscience.com/graffitiforum/picture.php?albumid=365&pictureid=2817
http://www.bombingscience.com/graffitiforum/picture.php?albumid=365&pictureid=2815


isnt that the E that Hecktor was tryin to throw on his vinyl? looks better on here but you could tweak it a little more , get the kinks out of it. you know what i mean. good shit though, the wind really fucked up that blue!!

suparjafar
12-12-2009, 01:11 PM
rewt/anion i think youve gotten better, but that r is really clashin with the e, it doesnt flow. get a new r in general

http://i563.photobucket.com/albums/ss72/suparjafar/PIC-0254.jpg

quickie different ish style letters

hecktor
12-12-2009, 02:51 PM
any ideas for a new name?

n8galicia
12-12-2009, 03:22 PM
atesk- nice style man

http://i984.photobucket.com/albums/ae326/damanseen/Mobile%20Uploads/1212091222b.jpg

http://i984.photobucket.com/albums/ae326/damanseen/Mobile%20Uploads/1212091221a.jpg

freestyle, so it needs loads of work

CrAzOnEr!
12-12-2009, 04:38 PM
eukos you need to really practice no disrespect but you need to really change your handstyle too.! if you want to battle pm me...

n8galicia
12-12-2009, 04:45 PM
what can I do to improve?

Vagrant
12-12-2009, 04:47 PM
Weekly Toy Throwie Battle
Word: Bethlehem | Deadline: Saturday, December 19, 2009
One entry per person. | PM your entries to me (Vagrant).
Weekly Toy Handstyle Battle
Word: We Three Kings | Deadline: Saturday, December 19, 2009
One entry per person. | PM your entries to me (Vagrant).

Nyc Sno
12-12-2009, 05:38 PM
n8galicia def work on the s and k !
http://i49.tinypic.com/ny8z0o.jpg
http://i50.tinypic.com/11iibrr.jpg

Crits?

Vagrant
12-12-2009, 05:43 PM
work on the N and the O
I like the E and R though

Nyc Sno
12-12-2009, 05:47 PM
n8galicia def work on the s and k !
http://i49.tinypic.com/ny8z0o.jpg
http://i50.tinypic.com/11iibrr.jpg

Crits?
bump for the last post on the page..its suppose to be a d

n8galicia
12-12-2009, 05:49 PM
like doo doo?

Nyc Sno
12-12-2009, 05:52 PM
like doo doo?
lol it was a little face 0.o

suparjafar
12-12-2009, 07:21 PM
rewt/anion i think youve gotten better, but that r is really clashin with the e, it doesnt flow. get a new r in general

http://i563.photobucket.com/albums/ss72/suparjafar/PIC-0254.jpg

quickie different ish style letters

bumpin, sorry for the bleeding marker through the paper, but it says roes

TheToy
12-12-2009, 08:53 PM
Thanks for the crits guys.
I did a couple two pieces today at a chill wall for practice. I made the 'E' a little bigger. It looked somewhat better. I also tried it with a lower case 'R' that suits that style a little more.

If I had to pick and choose between the 'R' and 'E' I'd have to keep my 'R' because I'm pretty consistent with it. My hand just has it programmed.

I'll try and get some more pics up soon. I'm just fuckin' around with all kindsa' weird letters and styles lately. Tryna' establish my own kinda' steez. Someday.

n8galicia
12-12-2009, 09:50 PM
anyone down for a throwie exchange?

-Empty-Can-
12-12-2009, 09:51 PM
I'll do one cause I'm bored as fuck dude.

n8galicia
12-12-2009, 09:57 PM
kew. I write eukos

-Empty-Can-
12-12-2009, 10:00 PM
stot if you didn't already know

ChadWarden
12-13-2009, 12:15 AM
http://i50.tinypic.com/w8vrdi.jpg




i think we call this a throw-up.

Flawless Victory
12-13-2009, 01:02 AM
your R looks like a reversed version of my 4 sort of, haha.
not calling a bite or anything, I've never even posted it on here

Zookyook
12-13-2009, 02:02 AM
i like the nerd throwups... and im definitely all about that style chadwardens rockin... shits got flow

-Dank-DK-
12-13-2009, 01:44 PM
http://i46.tinypic.com/20z9qx3.jpg
http://i49.tinypic.com/66mblw.jpg
http://i47.tinypic.com/axgtat.jpg
http://i50.tinypic.com/2r43cjq.jpg
http://i46.tinypic.com/34i1r11.jpg
http://i48.tinypic.com/2vdmddk.jpg
http://i48.tinypic.com/152kj7k.jpg
http://i47.tinypic.com/i2k6rc.jpg
http://i49.tinypic.com/1zpnodi.jpg
http://i49.tinypic.com/2colnif.jpg

TheToy
12-13-2009, 06:48 PM
Lookin' real good man. Im diggin' all those flicks.

Good work.

CrustOner
12-13-2009, 07:10 PM
I don't like your E's much, I think you could work at that. Definitely some damn good throws though.

MoistGarbageCan
12-13-2009, 08:21 PM
your R looks like a reversed version of my 4 sort of, haha.
not calling a bite or anything, I've never even posted it on here

when'd you have to put a four in a toss? sounds cool.

n8galicia
12-13-2009, 11:45 PM
http://i984.photobucket.com/albums/ae326/damanseen/Mobile%20Uploads/1213092009a.jpg

MoistGarbageCan
12-14-2009, 12:11 AM
eww dude, that's horrible.
how long did that take you to do?
1.Try not sketching your toss, try making it in one motion.
2.The U looks like a blob with a line in it, try making look like an actual U
3.The K is severely off again, make it look like a K not a blob. now that we're talking about your K, make the U similar to the bottom of the K.
4. don't make the O small, but then make the S bigger, doing this creates dead space and makes the toss look awkward. make the size of the O the same size as the EUKS.
5.Keep smackin' that book and continue to come back here so you can improve your ability to make shit look good.

n8galicia
12-14-2009, 12:19 AM
thanks man

RedEyes
12-14-2009, 01:33 AM
i smell bacon!

Poser
12-14-2009, 01:34 AM
Eat my penis man

faser
12-14-2009, 02:03 AM
Ugliest thing I seen today eukos.

shem
12-14-2009, 03:22 AM
wow scratch everything your doing eukos or quit now..

dank not feelin the throws. i love seign throws all over the town and shit and graff covered buildings but for some reason i feel like id rather those buildings be clean than have yuour throw on them. idk why i just dont like the style. everyone else likes it tho so i guess it doesnt matter. do what you do *****.

TheToy
12-14-2009, 11:00 AM
Why ain't you diggin' any of them throws?

It's easy to say you don't like something. Give Dank some crits and tell him why you don't like the throws. Give him some input on what you feel could be changed/tweaked for the better.

-Dank-DK-
12-14-2009, 11:14 AM
http://i984.photobucket.com/albums/ae326/damanseen/Mobile%20Uploads/1213092009a.jpg

dude just fuckin stop
u suck and your work hurts my eyes

Zookyook
12-14-2009, 11:17 AM
eukos- practice with a bigger marker, like a chisel tip... and do ur throwup faster so ur lines flow better and look more smooth...

dank-u have decent can control... i woulda liked ur shit a lot more if u connected the left part of the first letter... i always hate when i see a JA throwup when he doesnt connect his first letter, its annoying, looks way cleaner connected... other than that though ur probably the best in ur town judging by all the other bullshit tags around there hah, stay up...

OOPS!
12-14-2009, 02:44 PM
Dank your shit's fresh. Don't listen to Shem.

Flawless Victory
12-14-2009, 03:27 PM
when'd you have to put a four in a toss? sounds cool.
I changed what I've been writing recently,
not posting any of it on here, though.

TheToy
12-14-2009, 05:02 PM
http://www.bombingscience.com/graffitiforum/picture.php?albumid=365&pictureid=2836
http://www.bombingscience.com/graffitiforum/picture.php?albumid=365&pictureid=2838
http://www.bombingscience.com/graffitiforum/picture.php?albumid=365&pictureid=2840
http://www.bombingscience.com/graffitiforum/picture.php?albumid=365&pictureid=2839
http://www.bombingscience.com/graffitiforum/picture.php?albumid=365&pictureid=2837

Cold as fuck outside. :o

LeaksOne
12-14-2009, 05:42 PM
I changed what I've been writing recently,
not posting any of it on here, though.

your not earn anymore? :eek::(

Flawless Victory
12-14-2009, 06:24 PM
Nah, shit got boring,
going a completely new route.

AS248
12-14-2009, 06:27 PM
I might have to do the same FV. I was just around the 11mile and Dequindre area, and saw behind a dumpster a AS throw. And I've been writin that for about 2 years. I smell somethin fishy....

Flawless Victory
12-14-2009, 06:29 PM
man, that's just the suburbs,
you can pretty much ignore everything you see out there.

AS248
12-14-2009, 06:31 PM
I live in the Burbs man! Haha. Im not gonna think much of it though, I write Aseh anyways. I just like to keep the throws to two letters.

BlacktodaFuture
12-14-2009, 06:33 PM
eww dude, that's horrible.
how long did that take you to do?
1.Try not sketching your toss, try making it in one motion.
2.The U looks like a blob with a line in it, try making look like an actual U
3.The K is severely off again, make it look like a K not a blob. now that we're talking about your K, make the U similar to the bottom of the K.
4. don't make the O small, but then make the S bigger, doing this creates dead space and makes the toss look awkward. make the size of the O the same size as the EUKS.
5.Keep smackin' that book and continue to come back here so you can improve your ability to make shit look good.

hmm... blob style might be cool.... if he can master it...

-Empty-Can-
12-14-2009, 07:46 PM
I might have to do the same FV. I was just around the 11mile and Dequindre area, and saw behind a dumpster a AS throw. And I've been writin that for about 2 years. I smell somethin fishy....

Don't worry about it if you've only seen it once. And two letter throws can stand for anything. Keep writing your name.

AS248
12-14-2009, 08:15 PM
Oh I will man. I only second guessed it for a minute, never seriously though I was gonna. gone through too many damn names anyways, and hardly done shit.

MoistGarbageCan
12-14-2009, 09:45 PM
hmm... blob style might be cool.... if he can master it...

blobs with lines in them? i find it hard to believe it'll look good, lol..

CrustOner
12-14-2009, 10:54 PM
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e308/sk8ing_is_not_a_crime7/Photo8-1.jpg
ha. not amazing, but good enough for me.
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e308/sk8ing_is_not_a_crime7/Photo4.jpg
and on this one, ignore everything except the throw.. ha, the handstyles are lame.
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e308/sk8ing_is_not_a_crime7/Photo9.jpg
One more, for good measure. Gel pen and a Bic. Ignore the scribbles.
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e308/sk8ing_is_not_a_crime7/Photo8-3.jpg
Yeah, Earn-inspired. Don't worry, not gonna get up with this. Just tried it out.
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e308/sk8ing_is_not_a_crime7/Photo4-1.jpg
Same throw, different time, different speed.

n8galicia
12-15-2009, 12:32 AM
what would be a good way to build on my throwies? I should probably be able to whip out a decent simple or bust a decent tag first, but I guess "borrowing" could help?

faser
12-15-2009, 01:10 AM
man, that's just the suburbs,
you can pretty much ignore everything you see out there.

I've seen burner pieces in the burbs man, city isn't ALL where it's at.

Thetoy - I think you need to define your T more. The 2 letters throw dont flow with each other
Dude above me, quit now.

CrustOner
12-15-2009, 10:26 AM
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e308/sk8ing_is_not_a_crime7/Photo8-1.jpg
ha. not amazing, but good enough for me.
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e308/sk8ing_is_not_a_crime7/Photo4.jpg
and on this one, ignore everything except the throw.. ha, the handstyles are lame.
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e308/sk8ing_is_not_a_crime7/Photo9.jpg
One more, for good measure. Gel pen and a Bic. Ignore the scribbles.
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e308/sk8ing_is_not_a_crime7/Photo8-3.jpg
Yeah, Earn-inspired. Don't worry, not gonna get up with this. Just tried it out.
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e308/sk8ing_is_not_a_crime7/Photo4-1.jpg
Same throw, different time, different speed.

Bottom of page bump. You know I give crits when asked for them, and even sometimes when I'm not. This is like layaway crits. haha.

OOPS!
12-15-2009, 02:29 PM
Make your R smaller homie

massacreman
12-15-2009, 02:33 PM
i kinda like the r..

Fury
12-15-2009, 02:43 PM
I don't really like any of the R's, too much space imo, but overall, they're good.

MoistGarbageCan
12-15-2009, 04:24 PM
Bottom of page bump. You know I give crits when asked for them, and even sometimes when I'm not. This is like layaway crits. haha.

dude, your shit needs mad work. your hands however are fresh.
1. on the first one, you FUCKED UP the structure of the R, like big time. don't make the upper left part of the R so wide next time. everything else is IIGHT. i personally hate that style so it'd be hard for me to say shit without sounding negative. oh yeah, and clean up your lines, they got sloppy when you were doing the outline.
2. on the second pic that R gets shitty towards the ending bar y'know, the \ part of it. it's like you put a pocket of fat in the R at the right middle part of the R you tucked the E behind the R. move the opening on the bottom of the E to the right. The S on this should be like the first pic's S. the I on this one looks awkward, make it like the first I. the T is good.
3. the hole of the R was placed slightly to the right. align it with the middle part of the R. you left too much dead space on the IST on this one.
4. show us the toss on top left part of this pic, the R looks really good on that one.

CrustOner
12-15-2009, 07:02 PM
The top left picture is basically the same.. haha. But yeah, those were all the first of their kind, they've all been developed on. Thanks for the crits, they were pretty helpful.

caesar1
12-15-2009, 07:34 PM
http://www.flickr.com/photos/45600740@N03/4189106670/

crits?

devil at sea level
12-15-2009, 10:25 PM
caesar dont use flickr to post picks use photobucket.com and use the icon to copy paste pics...

and on the throw make all your letters the same size for now and lose all of the negative space in it for now..on your tag spread it out more so you can read it then get more n more compricatededed

crust lose the shading for now and work on your letters more they're unproportionate meaning size of letters in general and inconsistent in the width/fatness of each letter

quickiehttp://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss187/concretejunglebook/IMG_0303.jpg

MoistGarbageCan
12-15-2009, 10:28 PM
that shit's tough bruh.
is that some dead space i see on the AR? fix that.

devil at sea level
12-15-2009, 11:27 PM
that shit's tough bruh.
is that some dead space i see on the AR? fix that.

where on the AR?

Abor Rudest
12-16-2009, 09:14 AM
http://i45.tinypic.com/2iql403.jpg
blah blah blah. shit on my chest.

shem
12-16-2009, 11:22 AM
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2755/4190658166_f64e313391_m.jpg
ugliness..

TheToy
12-16-2009, 11:46 AM
I love quick grimey fills in black and white. Good work.

MoistGarbageCan
12-16-2009, 02:46 PM
where on the AR?
the top of the AR bruh.

caesar1
12-16-2009, 05:15 PM
http://i1000.photobucket.com/albums/af130/Caesarkyd1/throwie.jpg

tips? not just saying im mixing 3 styles

MoistGarbageCan
12-16-2009, 05:30 PM
you're mixing like three styles, man.

Daken26
12-16-2009, 06:23 PM
http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/5430/20091216181743.jpg (http://www.imagehosting.com/)

DAKE, crits please

TheToy
12-16-2009, 07:50 PM
The K looks like a U because the bottom bars are not distinguished. You gotta' get some kind of a line in there to make it more Kish.

That two piece has potential for a quick repetitive bomb to drop on the streets. Simple, quick, easy.

Handstyles are illegible.

hpir
12-16-2009, 08:03 PM
word^^^
shem-not bad
sace-not feelin the e
http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt133/hpirrung/kAn005-1.jpg
crits?
caesar-make yr shit closer together
daken- go to the new to graff section, if they still have it idk might help
http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt133/hpirrung/kanone-1.jpg
crits?

Abor Rudest
12-16-2009, 08:57 PM
http://i45.tinypic.com/2iql403.jpg
blah blah blah. shit on my chest.

bump. and kan, your name is totally unoriginal, work on your shadow.

get a grip!
12-17-2009, 01:20 AM
new "B" idea


---

suparjafar
12-17-2009, 01:33 AM
you write richmond dont you?
and i like that style alot, but clean it up a bit

get a grip!
12-17-2009, 01:57 AM
i don't write anything

better picture of the new B idea


---

SicK-
12-17-2009, 04:58 AM
http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt265/gzus1994/Graffiti/Eros.jpg

Crits?

Nyc Sno
12-17-2009, 01:11 PM
http://i618.photobucket.com/albums/tt265/gzus1994/Graffiti/Eros.jpg

Crits?get rid of the highlights ..does it say cros or eros ? too much dead space in the c and the s.

Nyc Sno
12-17-2009, 01:14 PM
if i were yu id try something like this http://i45.tinypic.com/1z2eq35.jpg

xSonnyTx
12-17-2009, 02:28 PM
http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i254/motoxracer433/rusethrow.jpg

Haven't posted anything since I was pinched.
Best throw I've got right now.
Crits?

SicK-
12-17-2009, 03:01 PM
if i were yu id try something like this http://i45.tinypic.com/1z2eq35.jpg

It says eros and thanks for the advice

dreaken1993
12-17-2009, 04:53 PM
http://i838.photobucket.com/albums/zz307/Dreaken/scan0003.jpg

mawks
12-17-2009, 05:09 PM
dope m, the o doesn't look proportional tho

n8galicia
12-17-2009, 08:22 PM
I guess you could say this is better than the last one i did?

http://i984.photobucket.com/albums/ae326/damanseen/Mobile%20Uploads/1217091716a.jpg

now would you recommend getting simples down first or throwies

Nyc Sno
12-17-2009, 08:33 PM
wasnt really sure what the third letter was but heres some advice
http://i48.tinypic.com/ixv1ub.jpg

n8galicia
12-17-2009, 08:35 PM
it's a k. what would be the best way to bust out one of those?

Zookyook
12-17-2009, 08:41 PM
i like this B, but put the middle in it and see how good it looks...http://i45.tinypic.com/34sjjoy.jpg
and i wanna see KAN use a marker of some sort to do a throwup, pencil just looks bad on somethin thats supposed to be fast...http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt133/hpirrung/kAn005-1.jpg EUKS can take a lesson from ur K though, it looks good, and its not too hard to do, start with the bottom kick part...

Nyc Sno
12-17-2009, 08:45 PM
my k's are kinda weird but i like them =]
http://i45.tinypic.com/igi3ad.jpg

Daken26
12-17-2009, 09:00 PM
The K looks like a U because the bottom bars are not distinguished. You gotta' get some kind of a line in there to make it more Kish.

That two piece has potential for a quick repetitive bomb to drop on the streets. Simple, quick, easy.

Handstyles are illegible.

alright thanks, i know i need help with with my handstyle...suggestions would be so helpfull cause im really stuck

TheToy
12-18-2009, 12:33 AM
Post a few flicks in the Toy Tagz thread. Give some crits and people will be glad to give crits on your pieces also.

Wish I could help but I'm pretty horrid at handstyles. I just sign my shit plain and simple.

Vagrant
12-19-2009, 10:16 AM
I'm still accepting weekly battle entries until this afternoon.
There are very few entries as of now.

CrustOner
12-19-2009, 03:54 PM
I got you on the Bethlehem battle, Vagr.

dreaken1993
12-19-2009, 03:55 PM
http://i838.photobucket.com/albums/zz307/Dreaken/scan0002-1.jpg

RADAWG
12-19-2009, 08:45 PM
Havent been on here in awhile..just not gonna post painted shit anymore..
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb33/skateboard23/Picture5-1.png
freestyled this in school..crits?
Kan- I think your shit is too short and stocky, it makes it look goofy.

Vagrant
12-19-2009, 09:33 PM
I got you on the Bethlehem battle, Vagr.

your picture was broken, so i was unable to include it in the battle


http://i838.photobucket.com/albums/zz307/Dreaken/scan0002-1.jpg

this is the future of graffiti

175~PROPHET
12-19-2009, 09:43 PM
first blackbook throwie, any crits welcome :)
http://i318.photobucket.com/albums/mm406/Bullet2jz/091219_163704.jpg

n8galicia
12-19-2009, 09:44 PM
the K is the only letter that looks good, work on the others and make em cleaner

175~PROPHET
12-19-2009, 09:48 PM
thanks for the tips man ill get on it

Flawless Victory
12-19-2009, 10:23 PM
twenty fucking thousand and ten.

TheToy
12-19-2009, 10:27 PM
Haha. I just caught that.

Vagrant
12-19-2009, 10:38 PM
hey guise, lets do some impromptu speed exchanges, eh?

TheToy
12-19-2009, 10:44 PM
What'd you have in mind?

Vagrant
12-19-2009, 10:47 PM
just pick a word and do something
deadline is 10 minutes from when you say the word

Vagrant
12-19-2009, 10:51 PM
just pick a word off the top of your head
say it
10 minutes later we post what we have here and see what each other did
its called an "exchange"
ready
go!

TheToy
12-19-2009, 10:52 PM
Ok, so what's my word? You write Vagrant? I don't write 'The Toy'.

Vagrant
12-19-2009, 10:53 PM
no we do the same word

OOPS!
12-19-2009, 10:55 PM
I'll be the word decider. The word is Sublime

TheToy
12-19-2009, 10:55 PM
Dust.
I like Sublime but fuck that word for the word.
Just say go.

OOPS!
12-19-2009, 10:56 PM
Or that. lol

Vagrant
12-19-2009, 10:57 PM
word is dust
due in 10 minutes
oops you can join

-Empty-Can-
12-19-2009, 10:57 PM
CAn anybody join or is this just a 1v1 battle?

OOPS!
12-19-2009, 10:57 PM
I'm at my grandma's house with no cam, or else I would

TheToy
12-19-2009, 10:58 PM
Anyone can join. Go go go. I'm starting now.

Vagrant
12-19-2009, 10:59 PM
anyone join
c'mon
its time to do some work

Vagrant
12-19-2009, 11:06 PM
time to post
was that too short?

edit: actually in 2 minutes

TheToy
12-19-2009, 11:07 PM
Done. Flicking and uploading.

Vagrant
12-19-2009, 11:13 PM
haha this is so bad

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd274/vagrantone0/speed/dust.jpg

i didnt even find any good markers
just 2.1 sharpies

edit: i think i'm too high to sketch

edit edit: i hated that word

edit edit edit: wtf is everyone moving in slow motion or something?

TheToy
12-19-2009, 11:19 PM
http://www.bombingscience.com/graffitiforum/picture.php?albumid=365&pictureid=2864

I suck at 'S's so bad. Ugh.

I'm high as fuck too. That's where I got the word. Uploading was like a fucking SAT.

Edit- I like what you did with that 'US' combo. The 'S' is killer. Optical illusion type shit.

Vagrant
12-19-2009, 11:21 PM
I'm high as fuck too. That's where I got the word.

O===C

OOPS!
12-19-2009, 11:24 PM
Lmao Anion's a cokehead

Vagrant
12-19-2009, 11:26 PM
O===C

bump

TheToy
12-19-2009, 11:27 PM
You're both way off.
Fuck OC's.
Never touched coke.

Fuckin' fairy dust. Hallucinogens are my steez. Mush, acid, dust, mesc, dxm, dmt, four and five when they're around.

-Empty-Can-
12-19-2009, 11:36 PM
I fucking love the word hallucinogens.

TheToy
12-19-2009, 11:36 PM
That needs to be a throw battle word. After 'Yulex' :)

Vagrant
12-19-2009, 11:49 PM
i already did it.
uploading now

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd274/vagrantone0/speed/hallucinogens.jpg
real quick shiz

edit: holy shit it says 666 in the lower right corner

Flawless Victory
12-19-2009, 11:53 PM
http://i49.tinypic.com/2ns3x1h.jpg

TheToy
12-19-2009, 11:53 PM
Damn, you're quick. Quick Draw McGraw. Pun intended.

Indeed it says '666'. Nice.

Edit- I think I like FV's the best so far.

-Empty-Can-
12-19-2009, 11:53 PM
Zomg it's evil!

I'm gonna do a hallucinogen throw

And 900th fucking post. yay

TheToy
12-19-2009, 11:56 PM
I'll try one.

Flawless Victory
12-19-2009, 11:57 PM
I'm not even going to TRY a fucking hallucinogen throw.
I'm write too big, 6 letter max for me, nigs.

Vagrant
12-20-2009, 12:01 AM
yeah FV won DUST

new word FUCK

TheToy
12-20-2009, 12:03 AM
That 'S' and 'T' are dope. I suck at 'S's but I don't have to write it on the norm. But I do need to work on my 'T's.

Survey says?

Vagrant
12-20-2009, 12:04 AM
survey says new word is FUCK, u fuck

-Empty-Can-
12-20-2009, 12:04 AM
Survey says I suck at throwies lol. I can't draw shit today.

Vagrant
12-20-2009, 12:05 AM
same here, but this FUCK i just did is decent
my shit is more simples than throws
o wells

ish

whatever

Flawless Victory
12-20-2009, 12:06 AM
Fs in hand = cake
Fs in throw= GOD FUCKING DAMNIT WHY THE FUCK IS THIS SO HARD?!?!?!
http://i45.tinypic.com/2who6e1.jpg

Vagrant
12-20-2009, 12:07 AM
http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd274/vagrantone0/speed/FUCK.jpg
the K got a little thin. i wish i would have shaped it better, too

TheToy
12-20-2009, 12:08 AM
I'll have mine up in a few.

-Empty-Can-
12-20-2009, 12:13 AM
http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss148/pics4bscience2/fuck.jpg

rofl this sucks my C is like a fat chick

Vagrant
12-20-2009, 12:15 AM
better than sitting with your thumb up your butt

(no offense, FV)

Flawless Victory
12-20-2009, 12:16 AM
*****, I went through like 4 pages without a single F I liked.
Just not cut out for some shit.

Vagrant
12-20-2009, 12:19 AM
you're stuck in the same style
try and break away from it

TheToy
12-20-2009, 12:25 AM
This is a new style I'm just fuckin' around with. I'm having trouble with the loops and the drop shadow with the loops interfering upon each other. Here's two pics. I forgot to finish all of the drop on the first cause I got confused. Sorry about the flash on the second.
http://www.bombingscience.com/graffitiforum/picture.php?albumid=365&pictureid=2866
http://www.bombingscience.com/graffitiforum/picture.php?albumid=365&pictureid=2865

EDIT - Stot, I'm actually really diggin' on your 'U', 'C', and 'K'. Nice progression.

-Empty-Can-
12-20-2009, 12:28 AM
Your drop shadow should be exactly like your letter but moved down diagonal a little. It's off in a few places.

TheToy
12-20-2009, 12:29 AM
I know but it's really tough around the loops cause it's all one color. I think if it was like black and white with an outline you could separate the original filler color loops from the drop shadow loops but I can't get it too look right on paper.

Vagrant
12-20-2009, 12:29 AM
and thats two pictures of the same exact thing?

heres an idea:
don't do the loops, or move them apart

TheToy
12-20-2009, 12:37 AM
Nah, I missed the shadow on the top of the 'K'. So I finished and posted both pics.

I've just been messing around with the loops. I'm not in a hurry to use it on a real wall.

-Empty-Can-
12-20-2009, 12:45 AM
Well if you want to get technical. The first one is proper because on the side of the K there shouldn't really be a large shadow. Maybe just a small part. Because in reality your letter isn't really that shape.

TheToy
12-20-2009, 12:50 AM
True, true. I guess if I slim down the shadow and put a thicker line over there it'll give that impression. Im'a try that out.

-Empty-Can-
12-20-2009, 01:03 AM
Whats the next throwie word? I'll do one more before I hit the sack

TheToy
12-20-2009, 01:28 AM
I just zoned out hardcore. I'll post some shit in like 15.

dreaken1993
12-20-2009, 01:30 AM
this is the future of graffiti

lol i see what you did there

dreaken1993
12-20-2009, 01:35 AM
http://i838.photobucket.com/albums/zz307/Dreaken/scan0001-14.jpg

TheToy
12-20-2009, 01:51 AM
http://www.bombingscience.com/graffitiforum/picture.php?albumid=365&pictureid=2867

I have no idea what took me so long.

faser
12-20-2009, 03:54 AM
http://i47.tinypic.com/2hcfaiw.jpg
FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

Con-Artist
12-20-2009, 10:36 AM
Toy- wow hah.
I've been workin on my throw alot latly, this is probly my most favorite one that i did. Soo give me sum crits.
http://i853.photobucket.com/albums/ab92/Somberatm/47be8b1a.jpg

kew1
12-20-2009, 11:26 AM
def like this butu should add something in the o

BlacktodaFuture
12-20-2009, 11:27 AM
looks pretty good, the B is kinda borring but those are hard. its come to the point where i can paint my throws better then i can drawthem. >_>

Con-Artist
12-20-2009, 11:32 AM
Yea man same, thanks. I'll just put a line in the o or sumthin

TheToy
12-20-2009, 12:32 PM
Toy- wow hah.

Wow, what? I don't even write those letters sober.

Con-Artist
12-20-2009, 01:09 PM
I was sayin wow cus I thaught it was funny tht u did that really long throw.

Zookyook
12-20-2009, 01:13 PM
dont forget the 3d on the S... kick the bottom of ur R out just like u did with the S and itll match better.... plus make ur B fatter so it doesnt look so bland everything else is cleanhttp://i853.photobucket.com/albums/ab92/Somberatm/47be8b1a.jpg

KtRL.
12-20-2009, 01:49 PM
HAHAHAHA your call that a fucking throw? i call that "google: graffiti letters/ copy & paste."

first blackbook throwie, any crits welcome :)
http://i318.photobucket.com/albums/mm406/Bullet2jz/091219_163704.jpg

Capped
12-21-2009, 12:46 AM
Getting back into writing, i wrote about two years ago, wasnt very good, here my first throw with this name.

http://i50.tinypic.com/iggqiu.jpg

constructive critisim and ideas please?

LeaksOne
12-21-2009, 12:49 AM
you cant seriously be writing cap. if so your a clown

and 175 prophet your a clown too. mr wiggles cant help you with graff and your a joke for even posting that

Capped
12-21-2009, 12:52 AM
A friend told me someone wrote cap somewhere in the U.S, but i live in canada and i looked around for it and i didnt see anything on google, can you link me to something he has done? I also havent wrote it anywhere besides on paper yet.

LeaksOne
12-21-2009, 01:01 AM
wow really? and why would you send me a pm saying exactly what you posted?

http://senseslost.com/wp-content/uploads/cap001.jpg

im not guna hold your hand throughout your time here so go do some research and next time you google a name put " whatever the name is" graffiti.

Capped
12-21-2009, 01:06 AM
I sent you a pm because i assumed you wouldnt check this thread often, and theres no need to be an asshole, when i googled it there were mostly stores selling caps for cans.

LeaksOne
12-21-2009, 01:09 AM
"cap graffiti" search that. or watch style wars. bottom line that names off limits

and honestly if you dont like assholes i advise you to leave the site pronto. its full of all types of assholes

faser
12-21-2009, 01:37 AM
zap lol

175~PROPHET
12-21-2009, 03:28 AM
i thought they looked better than the shit i did myself lol

http://i318.photobucket.com/albums/mm406/Bullet2jz/091220_181808.jpg

http://i318.photobucket.com/albums/mm406/Bullet2jz/091220_173700.jpg

LeaksOne
12-21-2009, 03:30 AM
but there the worst letters you can use. especially when you post online. the bottom one looks like wiggles again. the top one is kinda decent. dont use dark fills and dont worry about shines and colors. do hollows until you progress

175~PROPHET
12-21-2009, 03:36 AM
yeh i learnt my lesson :D
aight ta ill get on it. i been trying to work on my handy rather than throws cos i find it hard to get paint being 17 in melbourne lol

Capped
12-21-2009, 05:11 AM
Not going to write cap anymore, but any ideas on the letterings? Might write a word with similar letter, i mainly chose that name because it sounds similar to my real name and i like the letters.


EDIT: Would Pac be accepable to write or would it sound like im refering to tupac?

Getting back into writing, i wrote about two years ago, wasnt very good, here my first throw with this name.

http://i50.tinypic.com/iggqiu.jpg

constructive critisim and ideas please?

175~PROPHET
12-21-2009, 05:28 AM
the a looks a bit like a d to me, but dont listen too much to me i need wiggles to get letters :P

Capped
12-21-2009, 05:29 AM
Yeah i know i tried to bend the top part more but it didnt work out for some reason.

KNS13
12-21-2009, 11:35 AM
crits?
http://i654.photobucket.com/albums/uu261/Kema13/ef409128.jpg

Flawless Victory
12-21-2009, 11:38 AM
Getting back into writing, i wrote about two years ago, wasnt very good, here my first throw with this name.

http://i50.tinypic.com/iggqiu.jpg

constructive critisim and ideas please?
is this ***** SERIOUS?!

AAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_pkIWA-WIxeE/Scf2NlNnZMI/AAAAAAAAAW4/yuSXR47Aldw/s400/capgraff.jpg

weakfingers
12-21-2009, 01:16 PM
EDIT: Would Pac be accepable to write or would it sound like im refering to tupac?

Think harder for a name. all you did was reverse cap.

Taken anyways http://iloveletters.ca/WALLS/PhotoPages/PACwall1.htm

-Empty-Can-
12-21-2009, 01:23 PM
EDIT: Would Pac be accepable to write or would it sound like im refering to tupac?
Well theres a guy in Detroit who writes Pak. And he's up quite a bit around here.

He's not a legend put depending where live in Canada go for it.

-Dank-DK-
12-21-2009, 05:39 PM
http://i45.tinypic.com/161kyvk.jpg
http://i46.tinypic.com/2bqf6v.jpg
http://i50.tinypic.com/2airasg.jpg
http://i45.tinypic.com/2ypjj14.jpg

some one tell me once i can get out of the toy form

and sorry for the shity pics
fuck the env 2

BlacktodaFuture
12-21-2009, 07:47 PM
is this ***** serious?!

Aaaaaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_pkiwa-wixee/scf2nlnnzmi/aaaaaaaaaw4/yusxr47aldw/s400/capgraff.jpg

hahahahahahahhahahahahahahhahhaahhah

i thought the same exact thing!!!

MoistGarbageCan
12-21-2009, 09:11 PM
http://i45.tinypic.com/161kyvk.jpg
http://i46.tinypic.com/2bqf6v.jpg
http://i50.tinypic.com/2airasg.jpg
http://i45.tinypic.com/2ypjj14.jpg

some one tell me once i can get out of the toy form

and sorry for the shity pics
fuck the env 2
lol, you're a LOONG way from leaving the toy forum dude.\
no beef but the people here that gave you props were mostly super wack.
so don't get confident just yet.

-Empty-Can-
12-21-2009, 09:13 PM
And I don't understand why you should be able to leave the toy forum by doing throwies.

MoistGarbageCan
12-21-2009, 09:17 PM
word, i haven't seen not ONE piece from this guy.
that, and the dude's hands are ultra weak.

suparjafar
12-21-2009, 10:24 PM
have you posted something of yours yet? ^^ just wondering

faser
12-21-2009, 10:26 PM
^ Clown fool, we haven't seen any of your shit, so lose your almighty ego or show us all up.

suparjafar
12-21-2009, 11:34 PM
who me? im not talking shit..lol

Fury
12-22-2009, 12:42 AM
^ Clown fool, we haven't seen any of your shit, so lose your almighty ego or show us all up.

If you mean on a wall, no shit, he's still working on the books, like he should until he feels he has a solid throw; then he can work on the transferring from paper to wall.

Plus, all he asked was if he had posted anything. People on this forum need to chill out.

faser
12-22-2009, 01:07 AM
I meant trash talker garbage can guy.

MoistGarbageCan
12-22-2009, 01:09 AM
yeah, you pretty much summed up all i do around here. :D

Fury
12-22-2009, 01:46 AM
My bad Faser.
I'm pretty sure he won't be contributing.

KNS13
12-22-2009, 07:25 PM
crits?
http://i654.photobucket.com/albums/uu261/Kema13/ef409128.jpg

bumpo

BlacktodaFuture
12-22-2009, 08:08 PM
get ride of the teeth, and that K looks like a H

KNS13
12-22-2009, 08:12 PM
yea hate the K myself and its a tounge:P

BlacktodaFuture
12-22-2009, 08:49 PM
i would have respected you more if it was a penis nutting all over it.

kew1
12-22-2009, 09:23 PM
http://i616.photobucket.com/albums/tt250/slerk/December-22_1302.jpg

.nolove.
12-22-2009, 11:38 PM
HAHAHAHA your call that a fucking throw? i call that "google: graffiti letters/ copy & paste."

your one to talk haha


worked on it a bit, what do you guys think..
http://i827.photobucket.com/albums/zz194/Ilovebabiez/DSC00355.jpg
a skaaa throw.
http://i827.photobucket.com/albums/zz194/Ilovebabiez/DSC00354.jpg

hahahaaha.these are the most cookie cutter ass letters ive ever seen.

.nolove.
12-22-2009, 11:47 PM
also your penis is tiny and all your girlfriends and all their friends get together and laugh about it while they have their slumber parties where they have their pillow fights and gay lesbian sex orgies becuase you are unable to satify them like i can.










... bitch niggha.

~Star~
12-23-2009, 12:07 AM
http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk35/bomb4life/BUSH0003.jpg

seelzoh
12-23-2009, 03:35 PM
^ its pretty good, the K just looks kind of like an H

dreaken1993
12-23-2009, 04:11 PM
dont make the 3rd part of the n higher then the middle

MoistGarbageCan
12-23-2009, 08:54 PM
My bad Faser.
I'm pretty sure he won't be contributing.

lol, like YOU've contributed worthy shit before?
i LOL everytiem i see your garbo-ass letters.
you fucking toy ass *****

BlacktodaFuture
12-23-2009, 09:50 PM
http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv35/Snowmonkey117/dsc03171.jpg?t=1261622963

Con-Artist
12-23-2009, 10:30 PM
Black- nice throw, does that say vt in your s?

BlacktodaFuture
12-23-2009, 11:54 PM
mhm

Con-Artist
12-24-2009, 12:31 AM
Hah I'm in a crew called vt as well

CrustOner
12-24-2009, 12:44 AM
is that done with streaks, crayons, or pastels?

BlacktodaFuture
12-24-2009, 12:52 AM
it was a poster paint marker (they suck). Also VT isnt a crew.

TrikAssHoe!
12-24-2009, 01:00 AM
also your penis is tiny and all your girlfriends and all their friends get together and laugh about it while they have their slumber parties where they have their pillow fights and gay lesbian sex orgies becuase you are unable to satify them like i can.










... bitch niggha.

someone's in trollin mode:p

Fury
12-24-2009, 03:03 AM
lol, like YOU've contributed worthy shit before?
i LOL everytiem i see your garbo-ass letters.
you fucking toy ass *****

Damn shaggy, you said in a post yourself that you would not contribute shit.
Fuck buh, you need to get your head on straight or some shit. Take a chill pill.

And quite frankly, I do what I want to do, not what you like. And I never said I did. You can crit, yes, but you can't call me a toy ass niggha, bluh.


you beasted on the L's length on the first one, make it smaller next time.

EDIT: i totally see where you're coming from. but no thanks, i'd rather not post stuff on here. however, wouldn't you agree that what i said was still valid in some way?
like i'd be like "that shit's trash", but to balance out the insult i give em' crits.
so it's not like i'm on here trolling people n' shit.

~Star~
12-24-2009, 07:24 PM
my entry for the YULE throwie battle
http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk35/bomb4life/BUSH0005.jpg

.nolove.
12-24-2009, 07:25 PM
you're gonna lose.

~Star~
12-24-2009, 07:32 PM
lol thats okay, its just for practice :)
http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk35/bomb4life/BUSH0006.jpg

Con-Artist
12-24-2009, 11:04 PM
Yule only decent Letters the e, sneak- not feelin the a or k.
Just a quick little no soo great throwhttp://i853.photobucket.com/albums/ab92/Somberatm/a7e224d9.jpg

rasta tagger
12-24-2009, 11:49 PM
Semi-new throwie
http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u270/GrrrrrrlJeans/12131518.jpg

BlacktodaFuture
12-24-2009, 11:51 PM
yo this is the toy forum. you are not allowed to paint anything, just draw it on paper and say you paint it all the time but never have flix of it bc its yours moms camera

rasta tagger
12-25-2009, 12:02 AM
Ha? I'm hoping that's a joke because there's a whole stickied thread about bombs/pieces. I took this with my cell phone camera and uploaded it here to the 'throwies' thread because it is indeed a throwie. There is no rule about paint/paper.

BlacktodaFuture
12-25-2009, 12:04 AM
it is a joke motha fucka

Fury
12-25-2009, 12:10 AM
Try fattening the K on top instead?

CrustOner
12-25-2009, 03:00 PM
http://i46.tinypic.com/16o3ky.jpg
For the lime battle. Just another shitty throw? I like it.. haha.

TheToy
12-25-2009, 03:05 PM
you're gonna lose.

You haven't seen any of the other entries yet, so STFU.

CrustOner
12-25-2009, 03:07 PM
Well if Mero and FV join..

TheToy
12-25-2009, 03:19 PM
Everyone's a clairvoyant

OOPS!
12-25-2009, 03:29 PM
Whens the lime battle due?

CrustOner
12-25-2009, 03:37 PM
haha it's just for Zookyook and I. You can get in on it if you want? TheToy asked, but he didn't want to anymore.

seelzoh
12-25-2009, 04:24 PM
http://i46.tinypic.com/16o3ky.jpg
For the lime battle. Just another shitty throw? I like it.. haha.

i like it, just the M needs tweaking

BlacktodaFuture
12-26-2009, 01:27 AM
http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv35/Snowmonkey117/DSC03173.jpg?t=1261807680

SCOPE2
12-26-2009, 01:47 AM
http://i800.photobucket.com/albums/yy287/thatbige/DSC01708-1.jpg http://i800.photobucket.com/albums/yy287/thatbige/DSC01711.jpg
http://i800.photobucket.com/albums/yy287/thatbige/DSC01714.jpg
http://i800.photobucket.com/albums/yy287/thatbige/DSC01729.jpg
http://i800.photobucket.com/albums/yy287/thatbige/DSC01743.jpg
http://i800.photobucket.com/albums/yy287/thatbige/DSC01708.jpg

SCOPE2
12-26-2009, 01:48 AM
http://i800.photobucket.com/albums/yy287/thatbige/DSC01720.jpg http://i800.photobucket.com/albums/yy287/thatbige/DSC01722.jpg

mawks
12-26-2009, 12:16 PM
dope but is it a letter or what?

Vagrant
12-26-2009, 12:22 PM
It's a cum stain

Con-Artist
12-26-2009, 12:27 PM
Yule only decent Letters the e, sneak- not feelin the a or k.
Just a quick little no soo great throwhttp://i853.photobucket.com/albums/ab92/Somberatm/a7e224d9.jpg

Bump.

BlacktodaFuture
12-26-2009, 12:50 PM
http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv35/Snowmonkey117/DSC03173.jpg?t=1261807680

bump 4 crits

sombre: its clean idk what else to say. i like it

other guy: i think thats an E. seems oka sometimes when u paint it and shit other times. plus idk what u write/

BlacktodaFuture
12-26-2009, 12:54 PM
p.s. sombre, you forgot some 3-d.

Vagrant
12-26-2009, 12:55 PM
That a is fucked
Make the pointy in the s smaller

BlacktodaFuture
12-26-2009, 12:56 PM
yeah and i didnt make the bars on the top of the letters the same size =/

seelzoh
12-26-2009, 03:44 PM
your F kinda looks like an E but its still sick either way
i'd just fix the A up a little bit

Boris The Blade
12-26-2009, 05:51 PM
Safe, dig the style. Just work on making those bars the same size, and make it consistent all the way through. And before I read the hand, I thought it was Saee; make the F more F like, you know? I know some was already said, but those are the main things, imo.

http://i50.tinypic.com/2iszek3.jpg
Ozone for a PG battle.

BlacktodaFuture
12-26-2009, 06:21 PM
F is a hard letter, it is very difficult to make it look like an F and not an E. Although the E has that little line which makes it an E. Although i understand the difficulty. Im not really sure what else to do with the A and the top bars things and point things will be fixed.

TheToy
12-26-2009, 08:59 PM
Scope, nice job. Puttin' in work.

Dollar cans in the cold? I wanna' see you work that shit with some Belton, son.

smokeandmirrors
12-26-2009, 09:03 PM
http://i609.photobucket.com/albums/tt171/lacrosseplayer80/kasp45.jpg

havent been on here in mad longg lol crits

seelzoh
12-26-2009, 10:20 PM
havent been on here in mad longg lol crits

every letter needs mass work man, lose the lump thing on your S, the K needs more style to it

-Empty-Can-
12-26-2009, 11:04 PM
edit*

BlacktodaFuture
12-27-2009, 10:33 AM
http://i667.photobucket.com/albums/vv35/Snowmonkey117/DSC03176.jpg?t=1261928074

woonybomber
12-27-2009, 11:51 AM
http://i931.photobucket.com/albums/ad159/datkewlkid09/graff023.jpg
http://i931.photobucket.com/albums/ad159/datkewlkid09/graff021.jpg
http://i931.photobucket.com/albums/ad159/datkewlkid09/graff018.jpg
http://i931.photobucket.com/albums/ad159/datkewlkid09/trowys001.jpg
http://i931.photobucket.com/albums/ad159/datkewlkid09/trowys003.jpg
soem trowys

crits^^^^

woonybomber
12-27-2009, 11:54 AM
http://i609.photobucket.com/albums/tt171/lacrosseplayer80/kasp45.jpg

havent been on here in mad longg lol crits

you need some work
dont make you k nd you s lik etht at all the s is the worst letter you got the kay is the 2nd the a is okay nd the p is bad to
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