ive noticed there isnt alot of legal info on this site, usualy if soemone gets into trouble with the police, they started a tread and people kinda give out suggestions, well, i figure we should have a place were people can go and educate themselfs about these things, and not have to go on "suggestions" taken from erowid.org INTRO One of the main powers that law enforcement officers carry is the power to intimidate citizens into voluntarily giving up their rights. Police are trained to believe in their authority and trained to perform their interactions with private citizens with confidence. It is their job to deal with problems and they learn to manage uncomfortable situations through strength. Most people, when confronted by police get a mild panic reaction, become anxious, and try to do whatever they can to minimize the time spent with the officer. Because of the imbalance of power between citizen and officer, when a law enforcement officer makes a strongly worded request, most people consent without realizing that they are giving up constitutional protections against improper meddling by the State in the private affairs of citizens. A common situation is that of the traffic stop. A person is pulled over for a real or perceived vehicle violation and, after checking the driver's license and registration, the officer asks the driver if they have any weapons or illegal drugs in their car. When the citizen answers "no", the police officer asks (in the strongest language he can without demanding) to check that for himself. "Then you wouldn't mind if I took a look in your trunk." or "Why don't you step out of your car." Most people acquiesce to the 'requests' because they don't realize they have the right to say no. WHY YOU HAVE TO SAY "NO" CLEARLY The Federal Supreme Court has ruled that as long as the police do not force an individual to do something, the individual is acting voluntarily, even if a normal person would feel very intimidated and would not reasonably feel they could say no. (see Florida v. Bostick, 1991) If you do what a policeman tells you to do before you are arrested, you are 'voluntarily' complying with their 'requests'. Unfortunately police will often try to push citizens to accept a search, to the point of ignoring when you say "no". Its important to say very clearly "I do not consent to a warrantless search." Or "This is a private event/home/place, you may not enter without a warrant." Don't simply answer questions about searches with a simple "yes" or "no". See this case where drug police asked a confusing question and claimed they misunderstand the answer "yes" to mean they could search (October 24, 2000. Gregg County CODE officers, defendant Dockens, judge Steger, federal court, east district Texas). Until you say "No, I don't think I'd like to do that." you are cooperating as a peer with the law enforcement officer who is trying to make the world safer. When you say "no" to a request by a police officer, you are asserting your lawful rights as a private citizen. If the officer demands you comply, then in most cases you have little choice. Usually, however, the officer is likely to try to convince you to comply voluntarily. Until and unless you say "no" and stick to it, the police don't even need any real authority to tell you what to do. WHAT A POLICEMAN CAN MAKE YOU DO What a Law Enforcement Officer (LEO) can demand of a citizen depends heavily on the context of the order. Most generally, police are allowed by the courts to act as any reasonable private citizen would. They may ask questions, look through windows that they happen to be near, walk or drive in public areas, etc. Without a warrant or any suspicion of illegal activity, they are allowed to interact with other citizens, but they have a limited amount of authority to demand compliance, search, or detain people or things. In highly volatile or dangerous situations, a LEO's authority to require compliance is much higher than in non-threatening contexts. The Supreme Court has ruled (with Terry v. Ohio being one of the primary cases) that the police are allowed to protect themselves from potentially dangerous people or situations. Under the umbrella of "concern for safety" or "search for weapons" the police have wide lattitude to do what they want and to order citizens to comply with their demands. The Terry v. Ohio case created the "weapons search", "terry search", or "terry pat" exception to the 4th Amendment 'probable cause requirement' for searches. The court ruled that if a police officer "[has] reasonable cause to believe that [someone] might be armed" they can require they submit to a quick patdown. What this has meant is that it is now standard practice to pat down anyone that a LEO wants to, without the need for arrest, probable cause, or even suspicion of a crime. Many police use weapons pats as a way to intimidate and harass citizens, since it is a power the courts have allowed them to use with little justification. Often a LEO will find something during their patdown which is clearly not a weapon which they would like to see, but this is beyond their Court-approved authority ( see below ). Also under the 'concern for safety' umbrella, police are given wide latitude by courts to ask individuals to comply with simple non-intrusive commands such as "stand over there" or "wait here for a moment", but the line between order and request becomes very fuzzy when an officer starts telling people where to go unless the situation is volatile / dangerous. There are many stories of two (or more) individuals confronted by police ( one example ) whom the police intentionally separate to try to intimidate or to compare stories. This is generally a 'fishing' maneuver which would not fall under the 'concern for safety' umbrella. ( see below ) During a stop for a traffic violation, police have the power to demand a proper driver's license and other state-required documentation (registration, insurance). In most [ed-all?] states they also have the power to demand sobriety tests [ed - do they need reasonable suspicion of intoxication ?]. The courts have also given police the power to frisk a driver based on the Terry v. Ohio decision (the police should have some reason to think there is danger) and some decisions have even allowed an officer (with no suspicion or cause) to search the area around the driver's seat. [ed-citation for this?] When a private, law abiding citizen encounters police, the amount of intrusion a Law Enforcement Officer is allowed to demand is limited. Some areas have laws against "disobeying a police officer" or "obstructing an officer from their duties", but the bounds of what officers can reasonably require someone not suspected of any other criminal activity in a peaceful situation have not been clearly drawn by the courts. If someone interferes with a police officer engaged in an arrest or investigation, police tend to have very little patience and will quickly threaten or affect detainment or arrest. Generally, courts give police wide latitude in executing their duties and disobeying a "reasonable" direct order from an officer could be prosecuted in most jurisdictions. As an encounter proceeds, the police gather data that they can use to formulate 'reasonable, articulable suspicion' or (stronger) 'probable cause' that the individual has contraband or is involved in a crime. As the level of suspicion rises, so does the LEO's authority to intrude into a person's affairs. Once the level rises to 'probable cause' to believe that there is contraband in a vehicle, the Supreme Court has made some very disturbing decisions allowing the police broad power to search in certain cases, including the power to search closed containers without a warrant. (see United States v. Ross, 456 U.S. 798 (1982) ) In a recent decision (Wyoming v. Houghton, April 1999), the Supreme Court ruled that even passengers' belongings, if left in the car, may be searched thoroughly if the driver is suspected of a crime. In most states, you are not required to identify yourself or show the police your ID (unless you are in a vehicle). We have been unable to confirm that in Nevada that police try to charge people with obstruction of justice for people who refuse to identify themselves to police. However, if you choose to identify yourself, you are required to tell the truth. It is a crime to lie to federal police agents and it is a crime to give false identification to police in many areas [ed- find a cite for this?]. The Supreme Court has said: "A brief stop of a suspicious individual, in order to determine his identity or to maintain the status quo momentarily while obtaining more information, may be most reasonable in light of the facts known to the officer at the time." Adams v. Williams, 407 U.S. 143, 146 (1972). If you want to avoid long and unpleasant interactions with police, do not give them any reasons to suspect you of criminal activity. Courteously decline to participate in 'fishing expiditions' or any other actions you do not wish to perform. Police may search you 'incident to arrest': after or while arresting someone, police are allowed to search the body of the person being arrested. Recent decisions by the Supreme Court have also allowed the police to do exhaustive searches of any vehicle the arrestee was in and any containers therein. The Supreme Court held "that the police may examine the contents of any open or closed container found within the passenger compartment, 'for if the passenger compartment is within the reach of the arrestee, so will containers in it be within his reach.'" 453 U.S., at 460 (footnote omitted). See also Michigan v. Summers, 452 U.S. 692, 702 (1981). In Pennsylvania v. Mimms, 434 U.S. 106 (1977), the Supreme Court "held that police Officers may order persons out of [463 U.S. 1032, 1048] an automobile during a stop for a traffic violation, and may frisk those persons for weapons if there is a reasonable belief that they are armed and dangerous." WHAT A POLICEMAN CAN NOT MAKE YOU DO * Police are not allowed to frisk for anything except weapons. If, during a weapons pat, an officer discovers something 'suspicious' you don't have to show it to them. Although the police have been given a lot of leeway to 'check for weapons', the Supreme Court has ruled (in the key decision Minnesota v Dickerson, 1993) that a weapons search may not be used as a pretext for a more general search. In Minnesota v Dickerson, a man was stopped coming out of a 'notorious crack house' and was patted down in a 'Terry Stop'. The officer noticed something in the man's pocket which he said 'felt to be a lump of crack cocaine in cellophane'. He reached in the defendant's pocket and found some crack-cocaine. The Supreme Court ruled that in order to determine whether the item was crack or not required a further, unwarranted search was necessary which was not acceptable by 4th Amendment standards. * Police are not allowed to search everyone (see Ybarra v. Illinois, 444 U.S. 85 (1979). In Ybarra v. Illinois, a man was patted down in a bar where the police were arresting a bar owner for selling heroin. An officer identified "a cigarette pack with objects in it" in the man's pocket during the pat down and decided to search Ybarra. The High Court ruled that the officer overstepped his authority by searching everyone in the bar, even though they had a warrant to arrest the bartender and search the bar for evidence of drug sales. A common situation where police attempt to search many individuals without probable cause is a raided party. Sometimes police tell people to 'empty your pockets' or they pat everyone down as they are leaving or they target a few people based on appearance for a full blown search. Most raids on parties are done without a judge-issued warrant and are based on noise complaints, city ordainances about event sizes, etc. In these cases, most searches will be citizens 'voluntarily' complying with requests except in the case of violence, extreme intoxication, or obvious criminal activity. Be polite and considerate of the difficult job the LEO's have, but do not consent to any warrantless search and do not offer information to the police regarding any criminal activity they suspect you of. HOW TO SAY NO So, when a policeman says "Empty your pockets for me?" or "Why don't you step over here for a moment?" What does a reasonable, law abiding citizen say if s/he doesn't want to? Unfortunately there may be no simple answer to this. Because of the nature of most police-citizen interactions, tensions can be high and LEO's may interpret any dissent as hostility or 'suspicious behaviour'. 1. Stay Calm. Speak calmly and slowly and don't be surprised if the officer becomes irritated, angry, or beligerent. Move slowly. 2. Ask Questions. One way to Say No is to ask questions in return: "Is that a request or an order?" "Am I under arrest?" "Am I free to go?" "Why do you want me to *whatever*?" "Am I a suspect in a crime?" 3. Say No. Another way to Say No is to very clearly say no: "No, I would like to leave." "No, I do not consent to any warrantless searches." "You do not have my permission to search me / my car / my belongings." 4. Defuse Tensions. Do everything you can to defuse the tensions and seem peaceful. If an LEO thinks you might be dangerous, the courts have ruled that they have a greater authority to force you to comply. 5. Do not Resist. Do not Argue with a Cop. Do not Touch a cop. Don't Run. Don't complain or threaten an officer legally. 6. Comply when Required. Knowing when you are required to comply can be difficult (see What You Must Do and What You Don't Have to Do ) The moment an LEO pulls a gun, do what they say. If they make you do something through force, your Constitutional Rights are not as important as staying healthy and alive. You can challenge the arrest in court if your rights are violated. 7. Give the Cop a Break. Remember that police have a very difficult job to do and most cops are doing their best to try to keep their communities safe. When it comes to dealing with unusual or strange individuals or confronting drug issues, officers (and many people in the world) make some bad snap judgements. But most cops think of themselves as the Good Guys, so try to let em know you're on their side. 8. Ask for a Lawyer. As soon as its clear you will be arrested, ask for a lawyer and then keep quiet. Police will try to get you to talk. Don't. CAN SAYING NO GET ME IN MORE TROUBLE? The short answer to this is, of course, yes and no. A lot is dependent on your rapport with the individual officer(s). Saying No to a police officer should be done gently to avoid enraging them so you don't get beaten up. Saying No to a warrantless search may cause a police officer to harass you further to try to get you to comply. Saying No, however, is always the best idea when it gets to the point of arrest and prosecution. It is never in your interest to cooperate with the police in helping them collect evidence against you. If you do say No and a policeman searches anyway, evidence can sometimes be suppressed (thrown out). If you agree to a search, you have no grounds to dispute the evidence. It is common to have an officer 'ask' forcefully first and if the suspect gives any indication of saying No, they threaten to arrest them and take them to the station. They say things like "if you don't open your trunk/pocket/whatever for me, I can arrest you and we can open it up down at the station". Often officers will imply that if the suspect cooperates, the cop will go easier on them. While it is true that a police officer controls whether you are arrested or not, very few police officers will overlook anything illegal they find in a search (including very small amounts of cannabis).
What it is: Cops love to play word games, and they're good at it. They're also good at taking control and being the boss, or coming on like they're your parents or something. They know that you have rights, but they're betting that you don't know what they are. Watch your ass! Many people get busted by falling into their traps, or by not realizing that the cop is trying to get you to give up your rights ... so don't let them get away with it! One lawyer said that 99% of the people in jail talked themselves into it. Some of their cute little tricks: "May we search you? No. Why, got something to hide?", or "Look, can I go? Not yet. Why, am I under arrest? Would you like to be?" Rather than keeping this sort of bullshit going, or trying to outwit them, it's just better not to play that kind of game. Keep in mind that if you lie to a cop and they can prove it later, that's one more thing you can be charged with ... so don't tell them anything one way or another! (One lawyer did say "Admit nothing, deny everything, and demand a lawyer", so maybe you can lie to a cop since you're not under oath, but it seems more prudent just to keep quiet.) Sometimes they'll threaten "Look, we can go get a warrant anytime, so you'd better let us in", but what that really means is "We tried everything, but couldn't get one. Please let us in so we can bust you." Well ... just say "No." Tell them to go get that warrant. Sometimes they'll say "A friend of yours ratted you out and told us everything. You know the guy, (insert name here)." This is a fishhook ... don't bite! And don't believe them! They're probably trying to get you to "retaliate" and to spill the beans about your friend ... who will be next on their pickup list because of what you just said. General advice Remain calm. Don't offer physical resistance. Be polite if you say anything. Don't cuss at or mouth off to a cop ... fighting words are not protected speech, and the cop might have grounds for assault charges against you (or at least will make life a little rougher for you). And, never consent to a search of any kind. Best case scenario They detain you for a non-drug reason, such as a broken car light, a traffic violation, stereo too loud, etc. It's best to play along as "the good citizen" and to be courteous. If you totally get into their game and promise to take care of it, at most they'll write you a ticket, admonish you, and then let you go. Take the lumps! Express remorse! It works. If they go too far (like trying to search you or your property), then dig in your heels and exercise your rights. Read on. Your Rights You have the right to refuse to let them into your home if they don't have a warrant (4th Amendment). You can refuse to consent to a search (4th Amendment), but you can't physically stop them. You can remain silent (5th Amendment), although it is often advisable to give them your name, address, and age. You have the right to have your attorney with you while they question you (6th Amendment). You have the right not to sign anything they give you, except for a ticket [erowid note: you actually have the right not to sign the ticket, but the police will likely take you into custody]. Do not make a statement! Their "rights" They can briefly do a pat-down search on the outside of your clothing and check-out suspicious lumps that feel hard and bulky ... they want to make sure that you don't have a concealed weapon (but you should say "I don't consent to being searched" anyway to cover yourself, and you shouldn't carry anything incriminating in that same pocket!). They can and will ask you everything under the sun (freedom of speech you know). If you blow it by: answering their questions, letting them into your house, or consenting to a search, then they gotcha cold ... so don't do it! They don't have to read you your rights if you're not under arrest, so you'd better know what they are. They can briefly detain you for various purposes, but they can't hold you unless you're under arrest (If you ask "Am I free to go?", and they say no, ask "Why not?" or "What is the law that allows you to hold me?" or "I'm not under arrest, yet you've said I can't leave ... please clarify my legal status at this time."). If you try to physically resist them or to run away from them, then they have the right to use force against you ... even if you're clean and have done nothing wrong! So ... keep calm and be cool, they've got the deck stacked in their favor and they know it. Reasonable Suspicion Allows them to look briefly, but not to search. Probable Cause Having some kind of evidence against you, such as: a certain smell, an anonymous phone call about you, or seeing a joint lying on your living room table. Refusal to allow a search is not probable cause ... if it were, then they could search you no matter what answer you give, which is totally against the US Constitution (4th Amendment). At Home If they knock on your door to "ask you a few questions", then either talk through the closed door or quickly step outside and lock your door behind you. This serves two purposes: One, do not give them an opportunity to look inside ... if they see something, that's probable cause. Two, if they want to conduct an illegal search, then they'll have to break down your door to do so. Then you can use the broken pieces as evidence against them, whereas if there are no broken pieces, then they will claim that you let them in voluntarily. If they drag on their "question" thing too long, keep asking "Am I free to go?" until they give you a definite answer. If they have a warrant, then tell them they can't start their search until your lawyer arrives to witness it, and then get that lawyer over real quick! During the search, have everyone sit together and instruct them to say absolutely nothing. If the cops ask you to do something, then you may politely tell them "Unless you are ordering me to do that at this time, I refuse. Are you ordering me to do that?" If they say yes, then you can ask "What law says that you can order me to do that?" If they can't answer, then don't do it. If they try to force you at that point, do not resist, and state "I'm not doing this voluntarily, but under protest and duress." Remember your witnesses. On the Road You don't have much left in the way of rights when you're on the road. In my opinion, the best you can do is to keep things on the level of an average citizen stopped for a minor traffic violation. It's pretty easy to do this, and all it takes is a little fore-thought. First of all, keep your license, registration, and proof of insurance in an easily accessible place, such as attached to your sun visor. The less time it takes for you to get these, the less time the officer has to look through your windows while waiting. If you get pulled over, stay in the car, turn on the cab light if it's dark, roll down your window, keep your hands relaxed on the wheel (10-2 position) so the officer can see them, sit still, relax and wait for the officer to come to you. (sudden moves, ducking down, looking nervous, or appearing to be searching for something under your seat is just asking for trouble ... so, just sit up naturally, be still, and put the officer at ease). The point of all this is to demonstrate to the officer that you're an average ordinary citizen ready to be admonished for some small infraction, and that you're hoping for a warning rather than a citation, so be a little meek and humble. The idea is to get the cop to like you and to trust you, and maybe you won't even get a ticket! When interacting with the cop, be courteous and listen attentively. Be at ease, and talk to the person behind the badge. The cop has the right to look in your car from the outside, so it's good practice to keep any questionable items put away while you're driving (ie, don't keep a half-smoked joint sitting in an open ashtray!). If you're legally carrying a firearm, it's advisable to tell the officer (eg, "Officer, I have an unloaded pistol in my glove compartment. What would you like me to do?"). If this is the case, obey their orders, and make it clear to them that you're just a law-abiding citizen who's aware that San Diego is not as nice as it used to be. If they ask you to get out of the car, it's strongly advisable to do so. Get out slowly in a calm, deliberate and reasonable manner, and follow the cop to see what it is they want to point out to you. If all of the above goes well, then you'll at most get a ticket and will be free to drive away. This is what you want. The next part of this section is for those cases that don't turn out this nicely. Like I said in the first line of this section, you don't have much left in the way of rights when you're on the road. Cops apparently have the right to "pat down" the interior of your car (driver's compartment, glove box, and underneath the seats) if they suspect that you're armed (and you haven't told them so). I know of no searches that have not been held up in the courts. They apparently can legally search closed containers in your car, and don't need a warrant to fully search your car if they have probable cause. In my opinion, the best strategy is to maintain the role of "average citizen" but to be a little more indignant if they want to do a search, and to keep yourself legally covered. If they ask if they can search your car, tell them "No. I won't consent to a search of my car without a warrant." but as you say this, keep physically relaxed and keep your movements slow. Say it reasonably, as if they're trying to make a big deal out of nothing. When they ask why you're refusing their search, tell them "I've been advised by an attorney never to consent to a search." Give them a chance to back down gracefully, as if this were just a harmless misunderstanding on their part, easily forgiven. If they proceed anyway with the search, after you've tried all the above, your last resort should be to say "If you search my car, without my consent or without a warrant, I will file Federal criminal charges against you for violating my civil rights under the color of law!" Say it and mean it. Now, you are a pissed off, but still peaceable, citizen who's about to be wronged. Yeah, it's a bluff, so you'd better say it like you mean business ... but remember to refrain from any kind of threatening posture! Be serious in intent, but cool and composed in bearing. It might work. If it doesn't, then remain silent, and watch them without getting in the way. The more adventurous of you will go through this entire process even though you're not carrying any contraband! Why? To waste their time. We want to help them waste their time, money and resources in wild goose chases, and to lead them into dead ends. The more we can do that, the more worthless the Prohibition will appear. In Public If they want to search you, then say "I do not consent to being searched." Always be clear about this, try to involve witnesses, and never physically resist. If you ever try to resist, then they will use force ... they always do. So, be relaxed, move slowly, and keep your hands out where they can see them. Tight Situation They conduct a search without your consent, and find something. Almost anything you say at that point will hurt you. The best thing you can do, and it is your Constitutional right, is to say "I want a lawyer" and then keep your trap shut 'til you get one! Don't answer any of their questions (except name, address, and age) if your lawyer isn't with you. Worst Case Scenario It's 3:30 am, ten cops break down your door and they're yelling and pointing their guns at you ... freeze! Do not move a muscle, and keep absolutely quiet for at least a count of 3! They'll frisk you and start to tear your place apart. When they know you're unarmed, then ask "Do you have a warrant? I do not consent to a search." If they do have one, then read it and make damn sure that they can legally do what they're doing. (Apparently their warrant doesn't need to be signed to be valid, so long as a signed copy is on file). If the warrant doesn't specify what they're doing right now, then say so and insist that they stop (but don't try to physically stop them!). If they do not have a warrant, then tell them that they must leave. If they don't, then call the State Police and FBI, and report an incident of trespass by the local police and ask them to come and remove them. Get your lawyer there as quickly as possible, if you can, and remember that the more witnesses you have, the better ... there's always your neighbors! If the cops arrest you, then they must give you a receipt for everything they confiscate (wallet, clothing, packages, etc.), so I would think that they must also give you one for whatever they take during the search. If They Arrest You Ask "Why am I under arrest?". They have to tell you what the charges are. After they book you, demand your two phone calls, at your expense: first to an attorney, relative or employer, and second to a bailbondsman. If you can't afford a lawyer, then demand that they provide you with one at no expense. Do not let your lawyer enter a plea of "not guilty" before the arraignment (the first trip to court where you will be formally charged, which by law has to occur within 48 hours of your arrest, barring holidays and Sundays), because that would automatically lock you into criminal proceedings, which is where your dear lawyer will try to make his/her money. You should try like hell to get your case dismissed before that arraignment! Your lawyer knows what to do, and if s/he won't do it, then get one who will. If you can't get it dismissed, then enter your "not guilty" plea at the arraignment and insist on a jury trial, which will be expensive and difficult for the DA. Do not let your lawyer waive the speedy trial time limits! (Which s/he might try to do so they can charge you more money for "preparation", etc.) You don't want the prosecution to have all the time in the world to build their case against you! If you are adamant about all that, and if their case isn't strong, then they might actually drop it! What the hell, it's worth a shot! If your case does go to trial, then try like hell to get that jury informed about their inherent right to judge the law itself, and to nullify it by letting you go, if they think it's not fair or is totally ridiculous (like forcing you to go to prison for a year for having 1.5 ounces of pot, or some equally obnoxious law).
The legal system in the U.S. is one arm of the octopus we call "The System." It was designed by and is used for the benefit of those who control the society. It was not designed to protect the "rights" of those who oppose capitalism or business as usual. Because of various historical accidents, there are aspect of the law that, at least in theory, protect individual "liberties." The law presumes, however, that everyone knows what these protections are and if you don't know what they are, it is very easy to "waive" these rights. Therefore, in the interest of giving us all an equal chance when we're confronted by the cops, here are some thoughts on the law of police stops and searches. This article is based on how things are supposed to be "in theory." The reality is that police can and will do anything they want out on the street. And they won't hesitate to lie about it later on. But some cops are worse than others and a lot of them may treat you differently if they think you know your rights. The police depend on fear and intimidation to get what they want. Don't let them get away with more than they are allowed to because of fear. If you run into a really bad cop, talking back to him and standing up for your rights might get you beaten up or killed, so be careful about the realistic limits of "the law" and of your rights in America. The cops are perhaps the most dangerous members of our society so pay attention when you talk to them. What if I get stopped by the cops? When a police officer stops you on the street, the law says that the stop will fall into one of 3 categories: consensual contact, detention and arrest. Which one you're in determines how badly they can fuck with you. At one end is a "consensual contact." This means that the officer comes up to you and says "can I speak with you?" If you say "yes," you have consented to have contact with the police. That is very bad. The result of such "consent" is that you won't have various "rights" under the Constitution. ESPECIALLY if you think you may be guilty of something (you have a warrant out on you, you are carrying drugs, you just did something illegal), NEVER consent to talk to a police officer. This sounds backward. The normal impulse when confronted with a cop is to be polite and try to convince them that you aren't doing anything. If you follow such an impulse, you are unlikely to actually convince the officer and if the cop gets you on something, you won't be able to get out of it later on in court. Never voluntarily talk to the police! If you don't think you are guilty of anything, it still isn't a good idea to consensually talk to the cop. You never know how the conversation will end up. And if people figure "well, I'm not guilty of anything so I'll let the police stop me and ask me a few questions now and then" the police state will be on the march. Further, it will encourage the idea that people who don't want to talk to the police have something to hide. How do I avoid a consensual contact? If the cop asks, "can I talk to you" say something like "I'm sorry, I'm in a hurry and I don't have time to talk to you right now." If the cop insists, ask him "Are you detaining me? Am I free to leave?" Ask this several times to make sure the cop will have a hard time lying and saying you didn't mention it later on if you get to court. If it is really a consensual contact, the officer ought to let you go on your way if you ask to go. If you don't actually verbally ask to leave, the court will presume that you consented to whatever follows. Police detentions The next category of citizen/police contact is called a detention. The police are only allowed to detain a citizen when there are "specific and articulable facts supporting suspicion" that you are involved in criminal activity. This means that they can't detain you on a "hunch." "Specific and articulable facts" (SAF) means that the police must have observed something about your behavior and character that links you with specific criminal activity. If the police detain you without SAF, the detention is illegal and whatever they obtain as a result of the detention (evidence or arrest) cannot be used against you in court. How does this all work in practice? Suppose the police stop you because it is late at night, you are walking around the city, "you look at them funny", look "strange" or are homeless or the wrong color. The officer says "Excuse me, may I talk to you?" You say alright. You have just consented to talk to the police. If the officer notices after talking to you for a while that you have spray paint on your finger or wheatpaste on you clothing, or notices a bulge in your coat, the officer can find cause to detain you and could eventually arrest you. If, however, you said "no, I have to go" the officer is supposed to let you go because he or she doesn't have SAF that you are involved in criminal activity just because you look funny and it is nighttime. The courts have found all of the facts mentioned above insufficient to justify a detention. If the cop says, "well, you can't go" or otherwise detains you, then if they do find reason to arrest you, you may be able to avoid the penalty because the original detention was illegal. If the officer detains you and finds nothing, you should complain to the city, the "police review commission" in your town (if there is one) and you should let COPWATCH know about what happened. (510-548-0425.) Often (except as noted below), when you start throwing around terms like "detention" and "specific and articulable facts" the cop is going to lay off. A lot of the police's power is intimidation and the public's ignorance. It is crucial that you let the officer know that you are not "consenting" to talk to him and that the only way you will talk to him is if he detains you. There may be SAF in some circumstances. If you rob a bank wearing red pants and a string tie and are spotted 15 minutes later in those same clothes carrying a white money bag reported missing by the bank, the police will probably have SAF. There is nothing illegal about a police detention if they have SAF, but not just anything is a "specific and articulable fact" supporting suspicion that you are involved in criminal activity. The facts have to be very specific. A lot of "police harassment" situations involve the police stopping people because they "look wrong" and then going on "fishing expeditions" looking for a valid reason to arrest which they didn't have at the beginning of the stop. Don't give the officer a chance to find anything out--"Just Say No." What if the officer asks to search? More serious than consensual contact and detention is an arrest. For an arrest, the police need a high level of suspicion of your involvement in criminal activity. If you are arrested, the police can search you as part of the arrest. If the officer asks to search you without arresting you, you can say "no." The police have the right to search for weapons if they feel in danger of being attacked. They are not allowed to search people for other items. In a lot of cases the police ask to search someone and obtain "consent" to search. Even though the search isn't justified, it will be legal because the citizen didn't object and therefore "consent" is presumed. If the officer asks to search you or any of your property, tell them you don't have a weapon and ask if you are under arrest or if they have a warrant. If you aren't and they don't, tell them "I would rather not let you search." They may ask many times and seem to be acting with complete authority. Just Say No. You will not let them search you unless they arrest you or have a warrant, and you don't have a weapon. If they and search anyway and find something, you may be able to escape the penalty later in court. If the cop is obeying the law, they should leave you alone. The fact that you refused to be searched does not make you more "suspicious" and give them an excuse to search. Of course as stated above, the police may ignore all of these laws and they may be less than polite and non-violent. When a cop gets out of control, deal with it carefully. But don't voluntarily consent to either a search or a detention. IF YOU HAVE ANY MORE INFO DO NOT HESITATE TO POST IT
http://archive.aclu.org/pdf/bustcard.pdf link to the aclu (american civil liberties union) "bust card" "Pocket Guidelines on Encounters with the Police" [Broken External Image]:http://archive.aclu.org/graphics/bustcard.gif
i was gunna take law in school but i decided not to cause i heard its hard so instead i took photography lol thoose are good tony except people should understand that thoose are for florida and well im in canada and im pretty sure theres different rulings. tag ur it im bored
intresting stuff hehe... i jsut recently got busted though... and there was two cops... one is like can i look in your bag. im like nope... so she goes and picks up my bag and i said i told u no, i dont give u authorization tosearch it.did it neways lol
LOL...I read this on erowid like 2 years ago or something. Came in handy when dealing with bake in. Ne who...You have to be more suttle with the police other than just No. I do not wish for you to search me without a warrent. In these cases where they want to search your bag for something or your car and they have no suspicious thoughts to threaten them back on thier level you ask them thier full name, badge number, precindt(spelt wrong?) and car number. And when your done recording this you can ask them if they have strong probable cause or a warrent. *feels like I've writen this before* Ne who. The other week a buddy called me up at this huge party n asked me to come down n we'd go paint. So i load up my bag with my aresenal n walk all the fuckin way down to this beach. I get there and see only like a couple people. and my friend's waitin there... So we start walkin down this road and the cops just pull up outta nowhere, get out and say "open your bag" I'm like no, you have no right to search my bag. So I take a step back. Right then the cop grabs my bag by the strap rip's it off and the other pig fuckin puts me in handcuffs. "your being arrested for active resistance..." For taking a step back and telling them I didn't want them to search my bag. I wasn't even drinking that night! Ne who I unno why I said that. but ask cops for thier info when they hassle you and there's more chance they'll leave you alone.
Some good stuff to know here but there should be some Canada specific tips and legal info. Some of those American laws and search rules don't apply to us.
in some ways I do agree with this, but in some I dont from recent experiences,. if you answer no to every one of the cops questions I find that it gets them even more pissed off. some kids that I don't even know came and robbed my crop outta my backyard (btw which i know is a bAD idea ) a couple of days ago. I seen them walking down the street so i grabbed my paintball gun and machette and started to run after them. right then a cop drivwes by. He probably seen me with the p ball gun in my hand and stopped the 2 kids that had just robbed my 2 plants. the kid with my plants in his bag tried to take off running but got caught. they obviously told the copper where they had robbed the plants from prob to get them in less shit and 5 mins later there are 3 cop cars out front of my house. after they looked around abit they asked me who I buy my weed off. i tried tellin them "just some people that I know from school". he then says 'don't try that shit with me. you either give us some names or you put on cuffs and come down to the station with us". so I gave him the name of one of my old dealers who ripped me off once. lol I tried to avoid giving him any names nfact I even tried tellin him that I buy off people that I dont even know. he wouldnt settle for it and started gettin mouthy with me. so I started gettin mouthy back and i could tell it was pissing him off even more. :lol:he told me that next time he caught me for doin somethin that he would come down hard :unsure: . but i'm not gonna let no power trippin cop scare me from writing. just because they have authority and a gun they think they can push people around and shit. dont let em! someone I know just won a big lawsuit for sueing some chick cop that kicked him in the nads for resisting arest! Peace.
ah, great idea, tony. also if people have any questions about charges or punishments this would be a good area
10 minz!!! daym i think i went more that 30 minz....(hooked on phonics lv.8 ornge book) but yea thnx for the eduacated info... :lol:
good thread tony but the only thing is which of these laws change when your under 18?What about when its after your citys curfew? and anything else about being and minor and dealing with the law. I got busted a while back and they trick you so much and lie they are like if you show us all the shit you did tonight then we will just take you home but if you dont your going to spend the night in jail , and it will be less trouble if you just tell us the truth, so the moral of the story is close your fucking mouth when dealing with the popo.