i work with pencil first ten pass pen,also considering my other ones i'm actually satisfied so far. the vantage point i'm just kinda messing around with just moving it around to do 3d from various angles. that way i can hammer into my head the correct 3d for both the C and the S which i have problems with. also my S finally came out looking allrite. every other S ive drawn so far had tons of dents. so considering my previous ones yes im satisfied. also went with bigger fatter letter like i was told on previous page. gonna have something to eat and try something out without any 3d and try to get them closer together maybe lean to one side just to test out.