i was thionkin about an advice forum where touys could post probklems and otjher people could help them. wow... i cant spell today
hows about a sticker-exchange thread thread? i know we already have a sticker thread but i think itd be dope if we had one for people to post in that are down for trades....
Rollers/hang-overs. Probably won't be to live but maybe its worth a shot.. ----------------------------------- Trouble at school Maybe a post for people to talk about how they failed because of sketching or got caught writing on the school or somewhere else by their teacher!
graffiti campaigns! I unno about you guys, but theres a lot of shit pissing me off that I wish I could change! You just wanna do graff to be heard, right? Why not start a...lets say "bullshit" campaign against police brutality (see big L...), people can take flics of like political graff they did 'n shit. You know why banksy is so famous? Not because he bombs a lot, but because when he does it, then he gets some message out 'n people dig that shit. I saw some graff that said "PLEASE ASSASSINATE BUSH"...maybe if enough people sprayed that someone would do it?!
I like this idea, although it sort of falls under the general umbrella of street art, which tends to kind of fail on this site. It's worth a try in my oppinion, but not in toy forum. Submit it to picture forum (or general disscusion forum)with 10 quality flicks to start it off(can be anybodys shit, but don't post dumb shit). Hopefully people will be interested. I like it anyway. PS- I dissagree about people digging Banksy cause of the message. I think they like him because he spreads his message with a sarcastic humor. Lot's of people do campaigns that say something meaningful but it looks stupid (or they just plain say the message instead of making you interact with it) and it gets overlooked. His shit is always clever and draws you in. Rarely does he just spit a message at you straight up. He shows you something that makes you think the message he was trying to get across. Alot of people trying campaigns miss that. sorry, off topic.
I just submitted a thread called Chemistry 101:Beginner Ink labs, To have a thread where people that dont currently make ink can ask basic questions about starting out or see what else people have for a lab set up. That way we can keep the toy ink stuff their and save the other one for more advanced discussion. Fube please post it, if it dies down then delete it but give it a shot first
hrm, i dont know because we got that forum for a reason. but i guess ill approve it and give it a shot. ill check it out, but next time gimmie the description here. edit: lovely kid bazer handled it.
isnt that the premise of that one gay video game? wait not just getting up but every other graff game, jet set radio, and rakugaki okou... also i doubt anyone is going to assassinate bush since he is only going to be pres for 6 more months, dont worry about him anymore, id worry about keeping McCain out of office... banksy doesnt really "bomb", i like to think that graff writers can tell the difference between graffiti and someone using their culture to get fame so he can make mad money later..... i have realized im that guy who rants about things that wont change, but i have to try for the preservation of something i truely love as much as my wife or kid. street art should be kept away from this site, they are totally different, street art does NOTHING besides promote the making money off of graffiti, which as i understood it writers were against that very thing....lets see where street art has got us for a sec. 1. In 2001, computer giant IBM launched an advertising campaign in Chicago and San Francisco which involved people spray painting on sidewalks a peace symbol, a heart, and a penguin (Linux mascot), to represent "Peace, Love, and Linux." However due to illegalities some of the "street artists" were arrested and charged with vandalism 2. In 2005, a similar ad campaign was launched by Sony in New York, Chicago, Atlanta, Philadelphia, Los Angeles and Miami in order to market its handheld PSP gaming system. In this campaign, taking notice of the legal problems of the IBM campaign, Sony paid building owners for the rights to paint on their buildings "a collection of dizzy-eyed urban kids playing with the PSP as if it were a skateboard, a paddle or a rocking horse."[ these ar just two cases, there is also sprite, adidas, and a few others who are really bad.... the worst part about political graff is that what has it fixed? nothing you wanna change something for real? i have two words for you my friend, VIOLENT REVOLUTION, i nominate a "how to make molotov's and other destructive devices" thread, this might change some things sorry i didnt mean to rip on your post, i just rant alot
I like the destruction/political thread. We can really show that us writers are not to be fucked with. But really, perhaps a toy fights thread? Been done? Damn, battle forum... Maybe a thread that you post your state's graff? Shit, that's been done too... Maybe... Hmm... I'm pretty sure this toy forum has more worries than the amount of threads being approved. Sure, if we had some guy's who really know their stuff frequently visit the toy forum, then we could have some badass threads. But BS is scary enough when you just join, no need to flood these kids with all this other useless crap, like, what do toys listen to, and my favorite, how to get a blackbook... Keep it simple is the catch phrase here, we should stick with it. If someone has a question, then we have Toy Questions up in here still. I dunno, just remembering that, O.C. thread reminded me of all the useless stuff in here.
We've tried that. In fact, that was the premise of the "New to Graff" thread. Old fucks don't waste their time with toy forum. They may stop in for amusement if they're really bored, but that's about it. I sent out PM's to a couple dozen of the best on BS asking for tutorials, advice, or whatever they could offer for the new to graff thread. Almost noone responded. I think Die 59 did, but the origional thread accidentally got erased by Koper. That was about it tho. As for street art, those were really weak and random examples that only discredit corporate marketings attempt to break into the culture, but don't really tarnish the artform itself. I love letters, but there is a place in graffiti for street art. Just naming off some crap examples of corporate advertising doesn't take away from seeing a Supakitch, or Koralie poster in an ill spot or one of Flying Fortress' bears or Dface. Wether or not they made money, got media fame, or whatever, that point is moot. The same can be said for a shitload of ILL writers. Cycle didn't take Sprites money? Revok And Saber never sold canvases? In the end, any of us can preach about keeping it real, but some of us will make bucks, and some of the people making the bucks did in fact keep it realer than so many of the preachers by going out time after time putting their ass on the line to get up and create some amazing ass shit, wether it's in letterform, or in something else. The rejection of capitalism is a grand rallying cry for a culture, but pull each artist aside and show them a big check and most all your heroes will fall. Writers, street artists, MC's, everybody. You can't take that facet of graffiti too seriously. Style and balls gets you to the top. Your ethics will do whatever they'll do in the end and that isn't determined by graffiti or skill. As for Banksy, more power to that fool.. He's done some truly stupid CRAZY shit, and that's iller than ill. I heard Brad Pitt collects his artwork now. I could give a fuck, cuzz he still does shit that makes people shit when they spot it. Sellout? He took a fire extinguisher and sprayed the word "boring" across a bland looking new convention center during a graphic design conference he was attending. It was huge... You can make your money and still keep it realer than real. As for street art vs. street campaign, I didn't give much thought to the differences in them, but most "campaigns" I've seen I actually can't stand, because they're typically asthetically unpleasant. Shit's just spit out on a stencil all ugly and non-clever most of the time. I kinda like the "You are beautiful" campaign, but straight political graff generally bores me. What's more played out than the anarchy symbol? Finally, A thread about how to start a violent revolution is probably the best way I can think of to get the whole forum on some kind of CIA lockdown or some shit. Keep in mind, the forum is hosted by a graffiti shop. That crazy maze of capitolism is hard to navigate. Hahahaha I'm enjoying this debate like a mufukr. Now pull out your checkmate.. No wait, I still haven't talked about Adult Swim Terrorizing Atlanta with Mooninites! That was a sick corporate campaign. haha
sorry for quoteing your whole post, but its easier for me to reference.... first id like to say i dont mind contributing to the most of the toy threads, if its really general info that i feel everyone should know i.e. freight safety, being chill... specific info i will reply in pm form because i dont condone everyone writing that wants to, or having knowledge of certain things, because half the fun of graff is figuring out stuff for yourself, thats where i feel the biggest problem with that thread is. if you can understand that. this is a debate i almost wish not, to have, for the fact that its an opinion and we know how that goes, you wont convince me, i wont convince you, yada yada yada, but here we go... the only reason i mentioned corporate influence, is the fact that it has killed every thing it has touched including music of ALL forms(metal, punk, hip hop, jazz, even country), skateboarding, the custom car market, some TV channels and shows, not to mention some important stuff, the law, the constitution, the presidental candidates, the president, taxes, this list could continue for another page. There are street artists with talent, again i think this where our opinions differ, graffiti isnt art, in the same sense as everything else. I know im gonna get flamed for this but cycle, revok and especially, ESPECIALLY, saber, are prime sell outs, along with cope, shepard fairy, and most of the writers the New Graffiti Mass Media(see corporate influence) says is ILL. I dont feel anyone can call themselves true to graff, if your making money off of it, graffiti since the time of romans, for thousands of years, has been the, as stay high 149 put it, oh so elegantly, the voice of the ghetto. now im not saying those writers are talentless, they just feel no shame in telling the world how graff works, and doing their best to make an underground culture mainstream, thereby killing it. killing a culture is not what i would consider "true to it", most of these guys started right but when money came knocking as usual, morals, heart, and street cred, are bought and sold, for far less than one would imagine. In my mind making money off of graff is a very real point. there are plenty of writers who are way dope who still havent sold out, kuma, kwest, diar, atari. These guys are up nation wide, and what did they get for? nothing tangible, maybe a record, and some respect from people who dont matter to anyone anyway. "The rejection of capitalism is a grand rallying cry for a culture, but pull each artist aside and show them a big check and most all your heroes will fall. Writers, street artists, MC's, everybody." i agree with this wholeheartedly that is why i say what i say, this culture was not created for people to cash in on. what you described is selling out, which i do take seriously, which not everyone has to, that just goes into considering a writer overall "Your ethics will do whatever they'll do in the end and that isn't determined by graffiti or skill" correct but ask anyone what the number 1 seperator of toys and kings is, attitude and morals, and if someone is shitty enough to have no concern with wreckless propaganda, simply to draw more writers in for them to cas in on, will never be considered more than toy to me and about banksy, spraying a fire extinguisher on a convention he was attending, lame, if was so boring why did he attend anyway? oh yea so that lots of people outside the culture can see him and be shocked, and remember him..why would he want that? to sell his crappy art, therefore successfuly turning our culture into his cashcow. one more thing why did he not go to jail? obviously lots of people would have seen this, i guarantee anyone of us on this site try it, and they would be on us like stink on shit, this because of who he is, it seems un important for most, but doesnt that also take the ballsiness out of it? so no balls and in it for money.... it just doesnt strike me as graffiti also the thread about destructive devices, was my SARCASTIC way of saying that that would get us farther than graffiti or protesting and our country has a proven track record in this form of revolution, i dont condone capitalism for many reasons, the absolute very least reason is graff i would like to edit this in, this from the new to graf thread and states my view perfeclty: *An Introduction to Graffiti by cross-one If you want to do graffiti and are afraid to break the law please stop reading this now. Legal graffiti is an oxymoron. A scourge. Graffiti is not a form of art, it is not made for MTV, the back of your backpack, t shirts or impressing chicks. It's a community, a hobby, a lifestyle, a brotherhood. It's a place people exist and live, please do not shit in our house, respect our rules and those who have come before you.* *IN MY OPINION* also sorry for the spelling i am typeing this at work, where i make money not selling out graffiti....
^^^ This goes to show that the greatest thing about debating your point with someone isn't winning the argument, but absorbing the knowledge from it. Some posts are almost to good to be wasted on forums. Although I see some very exact and good points, but I just don't feel in my heart that "selling out" (as you see it) is entirely evil if it's done with realness and you don't change your craft specifically to make money. If you're faking it, then that sucks, but when you look at the media or advertising agencies or whatever trying to emulate graffiti with no knowledge and no style, that feels 10 times dirtier to me then looking at an advertisement done by a head that knows shit and has paid his dues. Just because we aren't contributing to the marketing of the culture, you think people will forget about it and quit? I think they'll continue on without our instruction and contort it's essence worse. I'm getting lost in words. Visual example.... View attachment 388155 this is graffiti without us... [Broken External Image]:http://www.bobizzo.com/files/u2/REVOKE.jpg this is graffiti with our influence. which is really worse? PS- as for Banksy, He tagged Boring across the building because the building looked boring, not the conference, and I don't think there was an audience when he did it. You see money, I see fun and taking the piss. I don't know which of us is right.
both of us are right, thats the great thing about opinion, and you are right, absorbing information is the most important thing to take away from a debate. I agree with you that if they are going to use graffiti, to use a older graff head who has paid his dues and so on, but i havent seen that happen yet, mostly what ive seen is alot of people who try their best to live off graff, its one thing if you take a couple thousand for designing an ad or something, its another to be on some cope2 shit and give info, artwork, and anything else you can think of to the highest bidder, hell to anyone who has a few dollars for his fat ass in my opinion.... graff wasnt meant to be vessle to fame and fortune... and useing it for that propuse is disrespectful, besides that most of the writers who i feel are worthy of me spending my money on dont sell anything so yea, i feel ya, to an extent