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political thread

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by scary letters, Feb 26, 2008.

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  1. Ignorant_youth

    Ignorant_youth Banned

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    yea I forgot to mention that in my rant...everything on tv is designed to distract your attention or warp your mind into believing all the bullshit they spit out.
     
  2. ...uhh

    ...uhh Senior Member

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  3. wafflecakee

    wafflecakee Elite Member

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    this tribute to communism is stupid. communism has never been tried.

    the russian revolution was lead by intellectuals. there was no proletariat involved...
     
  4. ...uhh

    ...uhh Senior Member

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  5. cast LI

    cast LI Elite Member

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    not true dude tons of people openly talk shit about the government every single day in the wide open. the problem isn't that, its that if there was an actual uprising it would be shut down lickity split. we have the most powerful army in the world, im not being a patriotic douchebag, just making a statement. so if there was a rebelion the army would be like SHWOOM and it would be gone. i'll continue this later.
     
  6. Steel!

    Steel! Elite Member

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    yea and did u say nobody would listen to a graffiti artist? you have got to be kidding me.. im not attacking u or anything but shepard's OBEY GIANT campaign has been successful beyond belief in getting peoples attention and influencing them.. theres tons of others who have impacted society thru graff.. bansky is prolly the other biggest tho i know im missing someone else really big..
     
  7. wafflecakee

    wafflecakee Elite Member

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    meek has done a pretty good job of that too.
     
  8. wafflecakee

    wafflecakee Elite Member

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    hey, congratulations on a great response. if you want to talk about it i'd be more than glad to prove my point of view however, your actions already tell me your political views are very naive and you seem close minded. so i wont try.
     
  9. ...uhh

    ...uhh Senior Member

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    of course the conservative is alaways close minded...

    lol im laughing at u because from ur responses a system of gov that fenced ppl IN, killed all oppisition, and has been left behind by serious thinkers, ...needs to be given another shot.

    but i suppose the ends alaways justify the means...
     
  10. wafflecakee

    wafflecakee Elite Member

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    conservatism is close mindedness, its an attachment to tradition and fear of change and reform.

    as i said before communism has never acutally been put in practice. marxist-leninism was basicly another authoritarian regime. Lenin admired marx but his practices were in no way anywhere near marx's theories.

    as for this so called communism being a massacre, capitalism does so as well but on others' soil.

    has left wing ideologies been left behind by serious thinkers? well lets look at Noam Chomsky or Naomi Klein...

    and you should suppose the ends jusitfy the means, thats basicly the machiavelli mindset that all right wing individualists share.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2008
  11. Steel!

    Steel! Elite Member

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    how bout u guys just give eachother oral sex and make up k? ..wait no that came out wrong...

    lets give ME oral sex and make up k?
     
  12. scary letters

    scary letters Senior Member

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    i agree that conservatism is close minded, but tell me how an ideal communist society would work in a REALISTIC way.

    noam chomsky is brilliant btw, have you seen imminent crisis? i just borrowed it from the library on dvd its incredible.
     
  13. wafflecakee

    wafflecakee Elite Member

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    The thing with communism is that we, after living in a capitalist driven society, cannot see how a society based on collectivism would work. Our ideas of humanity are skewd and created around capitalism. Marx explained that for communism to work there must first be an uprising of the proletariat. This is where the russians had it wrong. There was no proletariat, the country was not industrialized and contained mostly only peasants. Their revolution was lead by intellectuals such as Lenin which, was definatly not what marx had in mind. Another thing that marx stressed was that it MUST be global, and that global communsim will only appear once global capitalism has taken over. Communism is the antithesis to capitalisms thesis, and this is the way political practices are created. Anyways, global capitalism is being observed today as globalization. Once globalization succeds, there will be a global uprising of workers who will have noticed that they are being exploited (a basic result of capitalism) the social classes will have seperated to such a degree that there will be a few wealthy people and many many lower class people. This global uprising will create a society drivin by collectivism and common good.

    We may think wow, humans working together? thats absurd! However we only think so because our interpretations of human nature have been created in a capitalist society. We have been socialized within capitalism...

    A communist society would firstly start at the workers level. Since workers have been alienated from their actual work they must find again what it is exactly that they are doing. If a man is making needles for a clock, he must realize that he, and his commrades are building a clock as opposed to only him building needles.

    Within this society would be a whole bunch of people with needs, right? Of course, these needs such as food and clothing would be met by people who have found the desire to create food and clothing. Humans have passions however only once they are free will they become aware and able to whatever they please. People will cook because they want to, it will become an art, even though they must feed themselves. Passion will be rediscovered.

    its 6:34 am, i've woken up and cant fall asleep so my leftist ramblings might be a little besides the point. try me again later if this doesn't answer your question.
     
  14. Ignorant_youth

    Ignorant_youth Banned

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    not anyone that matters...you think any senator, mayor, governor, president, no or care about banksy political views they see him as a nuisence. and still maybe I was wrong is saying that
     
  15. scary letters

    scary letters Senior Member

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    firstly, let me say i respect this point of view, but i think its slightly naive. its a theory that operates on many, many assumptions that may or may not be true. i believe you said this before, but marx was writing for a different time and a different set of conditions, he didnt forsee globalization and the overall improved working environment since the industrial revolution. that point of view assumes that a majority of the people are dissatisfied enough to risk life and liberty for a major worldwide revolution, which i dont believe to be true. you also talk about people following their passions, but nobodies passion is to clean up trash or dig ditches. Call me a cynic, but history has proven to us time and time again that humans have a limitless capacity for greed and power, and thats why trying to make society function on a totally idealistic level is shortsighted. capitalism has many many failings, but competition has spurned some of the greatest advances in history, and communism takes that away from us. democracy as is, is definately far from being perfect, but its a system that has proven to be the most liberating over time, whereas i have yet to see a communist regime that hasnt degenerated into total anarchy and corruption. i think its entirely reasonable and possible that the working class rise up and take direct action, but in the context of a democratic government.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2008
  16. Ignorant_youth

    Ignorant_youth Banned

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    Not anywhere people really hear them. 100% of the news is bullshit and thats where most people get thier information. probably the most well known "speechs" (for lack of a better word) against the goverment come from the documentaries "loose change" and "Zeitgeist" about the 9/11, religion, and banker conspiracys. and music but alot of the people that listen to politically motivated anti-goverment music still only listen to it cause they think its cool and they say "fuck the goverment anarchy" even though they dont know anything about it really. atleast that how it is where I live...I mean besides musicians (where lots of people hear) who do you ever hear openly talking shit about the goverment.? like someone on the news? no one because maybe there are people talking but it dosent get out because its not on tv because then people will actully see it and be like ohh. and yea I agree thier wont be any uprising any time soon that could do anything its way to soon. not enough people relize what is going on to have an effective revolution and if there was one who knows what would happen? some other country would take the oppurtunity to take over america
     
  17. wafflecakee

    wafflecakee Elite Member

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    I agree for the most part, communism is quite the seemingly distant and ideal. You do say that marx didnt forsee globalization however this is untrue, Marx did speak about global capitalism which, in essence is globalization. As for his theories being too specific for the time and position of the proletariat i do agree. However todays exploitation might be seen in a different manner, it could be societies materialistic nature which is often imposed on us.

    as i said before the dialectic process of creating new political practices is something you should look into as it might interest you.

    also in your last sentence you use the word anarchy, however this is being missused. anarchy shouldnt be used as a synonym for disorder!

    you say you have yet to see a communist regime tunr into corruption, my response to that would simply be, i have yet to see a communist regime.
     
  18. cast LI

    cast LI Elite Member

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    (to ignorant youth) even if that happened and another country did come in and take over who says it would be better? at the state that the worlds at with everyone hating us, they would make it even worse for us just because we're american. but anyway the point i was going to make but had to leave my computer was that there isn't enough people in this country with enough balls and dedication to join any kind of rebellion, if one were started. theres too many ignorant rednecks across middle america (no offense to middle america, just the rednecks) who only get their knowledge on politics from the radio that would immediatly join the army and beat down the rebels to save their beautiful flag.

    and in the impossibility that there was a succesful rebellion, anarchy on the large scale would never work. too many countries around the world hate us and as soon as the strong government fell, there would be no opposing force and no reason not to bomb the shit out of us.

    i'm all for living with no rules, but i like the idea of solidarity way better. just me and a bunch of my friends in a commune, fuck everyone else.
     
  19. Ignorant_youth

    Ignorant_youth Banned

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    I didnt say it would be better. I was just saying that thats what would happen. and I never said I was for anarchy because it couldnt work on a large scale like your just said. I was just saying that theres alot of stupid people that say that without even knowing about anything really. so yea were basically on the same page.

    and I feel you on solidarity. my friends and I have talked about it but I doubt thats ever gonna happpen because my whole group of friends barley ever get together anymore. we use to have big ass partys on the beach and shit but now everyone is drifting away doing thier own thing. alright off subject

    you just misunderstood me is all I agree with you on basically everything we talked about...
     
  20. ...uhh

    ...uhh Senior Member

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    lots of college liberal kids in here.....

    anyways...i think the idea that conservatism is closeminded is a load....conservatism is jsut doing what has been done.....it is not about stopping progress or hating someone ....its about remembering the past...what worked...and what didnt...and for the record im conservative for the most part...but hardly close minded....one of my best friends is gay....i support marijuana reform laws...and i call bullshit on nafta...i must be one super close minded fucker...

    my original point was that communism fails hard...its people are alaways trying to run from it! ie east germans and cubans in bathtubs....any system of government where u even utter the idea that we need to change the way the world thinks and teach them we are correct...is fucken oppression...plain and simple...it would be reeducation....trying to change a humans very nature....humans compete...that is why the capitalist system works....if humans worked together and no competition ever took place communism might have as much chance as a celery plate at curves....


    i think the reason we are even having this conversation about communism being a viable means of governance is alot of young teenagers and people...are bored......they see the incredible political movements of the 60s and think...i wanna do something important too....so they do one of two things....try to continue their parents fights from the 60's which "arent over"
    or make up new fights and causes to argue with their parents about...

    alot of these political movements come from college campuses too, where proffessors are seen as infallible and all knowing...with this command of their audience professors (knowingly or unknowingly) push thier political beliefs on the students.....imagine 1 man affects the mindes of thousands of people on a regular basis....its wild


    ur porbablly gonna try an jock....but for real............people stop trying to be cool and a sheep and think about what is affecting ur life think about it without the ...what will the others think of me for this position.....just sit down and think....dont listen , think
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2008