This thread has become a real keeper. Probably some of the best conversation on ethics in graffiti I've ever seen on a forum. I'm torn between the two sides of this debate. One one hand. I'm not gonna lie about it at all to save face... Revok is my favorite artist in graff, and I love alot of other heads in MSK including Kress, Kofie, Retna, Reyes, Norm, and so many other heads in that crew. I haven't seen so much quality and origional work from anybody else, but then, I'm from an isolated area, and what I see is brought to me through books, mags, and the internet.. And yes, I've been given opportunities to market graffiti and taken those opportunities and enjoyed it, but I had a similiar conversation with Hammer about this a while back that got me thinking alot, and although I haven't given myself to one side or another on this debate, I'm starting to get an eerie feeling he's right.. I was in Old Navy yesterday, looking thru their clearance shit (cuzz I'm a cheap ass and need work shirts... They had a bunch of tee's for 5 bucks.. "Brooklyn" in a fairly credible handstyle A hand holding a spray can A shirt that said "quality of life" a shirt with subway cars across it... Kinda makes you feel creepy looking at all this shit. The Sturgis Motorcycle rally is going on right now. Years ago it was a huge renegade party. Corporations came in and started capitolizing on it. Now it's all retired old people and flash. It's ruined. What Hammer is saying DOES happen.. Graffiti can be destroyed. Can it be rebuilt afterward? I dunno. A thread like this is valuable to make us think about what we're in it for and what direction we want to go in with it.. One thing I do want to say is I don't think graff was built entirely off giving the finger to corporate media, but it's a nice portion of the culture. I think alot of what we do and have done is for fame. That's why we write our names. over and over and over. With fame comes the second hand, the money. This is where it all gets hairy.. I support both sides of this debate to be expressed. I appreciate what Hammer says and think he's a VALUABLE member here. A needed kick in the ass. Graff aint all cozy. Sometimes the truth hurts.