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Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by GeSuS_KRiST, Aug 1, 2008.

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  1. C3ZR ONE

    C3ZR ONE Moderator

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    This thread has become a real keeper. Probably some of the best conversation on ethics in graffiti I've ever seen on a forum.

    I'm torn between the two sides of this debate. One one hand. I'm not gonna lie about it at all to save face... Revok is my favorite artist in graff, and I love alot of other heads in MSK including Kress, Kofie, Retna, Reyes, Norm, and so many other heads in that crew. I haven't seen so much quality and origional work from anybody else, but then, I'm from an isolated area, and what I see is brought to me through books, mags, and the internet.. And yes, I've been given opportunities to market graffiti and taken those opportunities and enjoyed it, but I had a similiar conversation with Hammer about this a while back that got me thinking alot, and although I haven't given myself to one side or another on this debate, I'm starting to get an eerie feeling he's right..
    I was in Old Navy yesterday, looking thru their clearance shit (cuzz I'm a cheap ass and need work shirts... They had a bunch of tee's for 5 bucks..
    "Brooklyn" in a fairly credible handstyle
    A hand holding a spray can
    A shirt that said "quality of life"
    a shirt with subway cars across it...
    Kinda makes you feel creepy looking at all this shit.

    The Sturgis Motorcycle rally is going on right now. Years ago it was a huge renegade party. Corporations came in and started capitolizing on it. Now it's all retired old people and flash. It's ruined. What Hammer is saying DOES happen.. Graffiti can be destroyed. Can it be rebuilt afterward? I dunno. A thread like this is valuable to make us think about what we're in it for and what direction we want to go in with it..

    One thing I do want to say is I don't think graff was built entirely off giving the finger to corporate media, but it's a nice portion of the culture. I think alot of what we do and have done is for fame. That's why we write our names. over and over and over. With fame comes the second hand, the money. This is where it all gets hairy..

    I support both sides of this debate to be expressed. I appreciate what Hammer says and think he's a VALUABLE member here. A needed kick in the ass. Graff aint all cozy. Sometimes the truth hurts.
  2. sketch3

    sketch3 Banned

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    uhhh he deserved to get caught
  3. Hobbes

    Hobbes Senior Member

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    what do you guys consider graff though?

    Is it when people bite the art form? 'Cause I been doin' graphic design for awhile now and I think a lot of it is intertwined.

    I see company logos all the time and think "wtf is the difference between that and graffiti? that stupid logo is just a hand style that depicts the companies style"

    for example this "Guy Harvey" fishing logo is just the text written and has long extensions, its a pretty solid logo I think, but is that graffiti?

    I mean, if I get a client that is say...a hip hop artist or something and says "oh hey man can you do a hand style that says my name?" I don't necessarily want to say "Sorry man I don't think your real enough for that, do it yourself" ya' know?

    But I would never want to make something that someone is gonna make a lot of money off and who has never given back to the culture.

    To me, graffiti isn't much different from the art of typography. A lot of the same rules apply.

    What I consider graffiti, is "writing on property" so I don't care what style it is, if someone writes on something, their a graffiti writer.

    Its shit though when corporations put their building up and have lots of graffiti-style adverts but then won't hesitate to prosecute a kid painting on their building.
  4. diggy64

    diggy64 Elite Member

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    Anyone notice the Miss17 throws on that last video? Damn that girl gets up all over.
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2008
  5. Fube

    Fube Elite Member

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    i ment no disrespect hammer. it probably came off that way. but the more i think about it the more i see this shit out there on what hes talking about. and altho i understand, i feel that this is a demon thats gunna happen anyway if u want it to or not, so u might as well take advantage. hobbes and cezr really kinda put it in prospective for me.
  6. hammer_time

    hammer_time Banned

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    i dont take shit real personal, i just feel a certain way, and its something i feel needs to be brought to everyones attention, because like hobbes said, there are kids doing it to get good enough so they can make money off of it......

    Making money off of graff isnt all bad, it depends on how you do it, who is paying you, what you are doing, and where you draw the line....
    for me i feel there is something very disgusting sounding about the term "Corporate Sponsered Writer".
    The golden days have been dead in some places for years and pobably isnt coming back, they still paint...but under stress and it makes people not want to paint, especially people who could potentially lose houses, jobs, cars, etc. Fortunatly there are MANY places that are still chill, but their days are numbered.....

    It is also disrespectful IMO for anyone to to try to make a living off of writers, and marketing crap towards writers, useless crap, id be lieing if i said i said i didnt own any otr's but come on its starting to get sad, carhartt? go to your local western wear store and look and the adverts there, the people, and really get an idea of what those people would think of you if they knew you wrote graff.

    i'm sure you can see where im going with this...

    its really funny you mentioned sturgis, because were i mentioned cars, i typed half a paragraph about that and custom bikes, but changed gears (pun), figuring it was over everyones head....

    anyway no beef but thats how i feel, and see things, i dont tak eshit personal, and am probably one of the hardest people you know to offend....
  7. Fube

    Fube Elite Member

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    yes, i have a different prospective now and you are basicly the one that changed my outlook. for that i thank u. i mean i know that shit is going on, but i just thought it was the nature of the beast and to just adapt and roll with it, get it where u can. but u speak of culture, and how chill spots days are numbered kinda cleared it up for me. when all this corprate shit is over and the money is gone all we got is street. we should just keep it that way.
  8. rambler

    rambler Senior Member

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    like it or not graffiti is illegal. post pics and vids on the internet, and its bound to come back to bite you.
  9. garbage down tha way

    garbage down tha way Elite Member

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    Last edited: Dec 6, 2011
  10. its all good till the cops come

    its all good till the cops come Senior Member

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    i agree with hammer on alot of the shit, but what i say is this..
    sure being sponsored by a corporate company is taking away..i mean you should be known for doing it the old fashioned way..but at the same time he's gotta eat..and if he loves doin it then whats the biggie? there comes a certain point in life where you gotta think about whether you wanna do the same old shit and not get paid..or get paid for the sam old shit...hes already done his share of work before the free basicallytheres a period where you thikn its bullshit and keep it real..and then it swithces over to the part where you wanna have alot of money doing what you love..its the cycle.
  11. Kayone707

    Kayone707 Moderator

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    i'll just make it easy and ban you?
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2008
  12. Kayone707

    Kayone707 Moderator

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    revok has been doing it the "old fashion way" before most of you even knew what graffiti was. The fact that most of you are hating is just plain lame.
    if all yall that are hating were Really into this 'subculture' as you claim, you would be able to recognize a great piece when you see one. he busts out great work all the time (along with some that i personally dont like) so why hate?
    yes he's sponsored by corporate companies * along with MTN paint* (most of you BUY PAINT FROM THEM!) but thats just the perks of paying dues.
    im bored now. what ever
  13. Proper

    Proper Elite Member

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    I didn't read the whole thread so if i'm late or stating something someone else has already said; sorry.

    This is arguement has no wrong/right side. It's all based on personal-opinion. The only thing that can come from this is just hatred towards eachother because some people always have to be right when in reality there isn't a right from wrong in this subject.

    I will admit that in some of your arguements, you defended your side perfectly and made me second guess my own opinion. But, graffiti is something every one is entitled to partake in and whether that person has the talent and the resources to make a living off of is essentially a reward for busting their asses and risking their future in something else if it work out for them in Graffiti. For example; sports. Aren't sports suppose to be free? Aren't they just for kicks and giggles? An exceptional talent in sports will receive free education and then millions of dollars in endorsements and salary because of their unparralled talent in their respected sport. They took a childhood game and turned it into their profession. They dedicated themselves to the game and a majority of them use their talent to provide for their family because they might not have the intelligence of a scholar. You can't blame them for that, can you? It's the same logic, really. Revok dedicated himself to graffiti (something much, much harder to get spondsored in) and is now living off of that. You cannot possibly say that if you were as talented as Revok and you did not have an education and corporate companies were willing to pay you hundreds/thousands of dollars to do something you absolutely love and this "job" would provide more for your family/yourself that you could possibily decline it? If you say yes, you're a complete and utter liar. Anyone and everyone in their right mind would take that oppurtunity in a blink of an eye. Revok is no different than Peyton Manning/Kobe Bryant/Alex Rodriguez/Cristiano Ronald and any other world class athelete that you could think of. They are doing something they love and enjoy. Isn't that what they preach to you in school, anyways? Find a profession that makes YOU happy because after all you are the one who will be stucked with that profession for the rest of your life.

    Like I said, it's all personal-opinion.
  14. nero112

    nero112 Elite Member

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    just paint if you want to sell out sell out if you wanna keep painting n make a living with other skills go for it graffs meant to be illegal its meant to be fun man whats better than chillin under a bridge with some weed n a couple good friends while painting a nice piece takin your time?or even climbin up to a rooftop n being paranoid as fuck n bustin out a nice chrome fill black outline n nice green force field then bein on the bus the next day n chekin that shit just burst of the wal ?

    just keep painting people keep it alive in your own way cos i doubt it will ever die out..:p
  15. MoNkEy

    MoNkEy Elite Member

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    thats a complete fuckin bummer....but as for you all moaning about people selling out....if you were offered a fair bit of money and free paint for doing the odd sketch or design...i think 100% of the people on this forum would say yes...i know i stop moaning about so called sell outs....but still a bummer to hear that such a good writers might not be around....
  16. sketch3

    sketch3 Banned

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    uhh having talent has nothing to do with selling out,
    look at mobb deep, they used to be dope but now their in g unit making trashg with 50

    regardless if he can bust a dope peice if ur up as much as him,
    dont show ur face on videos and shit, common sense says u deserve to get nabbed

    not that i care if he sold out or not he was stupid for being in the lime light
  17. rambler

    rambler Senior Member

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    I have mad respect for Revok, i used to pass some of his work on the way to my school every morning, and it would help me get through the early times. That said, it is of his own actions and as it seems his feelings of "invincibility" that he is in the situation he is in.
  18. nero112

    nero112 Elite Member

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    who fuckin cares doesnt effect you does it so fukin what theyr sloppy big deal writers get jailed evry fuckin day whatever man
  19. South-Pole

    South-Pole Elite Member

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    in a just a few pages,we went off topic,we were talking about getting busted/etc.. and now about graff nowdays,wtf
  20. HuntingLOLs

    HuntingLOLs Senior Member

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    As i gathered from what Gesus posted Revok got busted from Prints, since he has been busted before they have em on file. But im getting confused of how they can charge a person with xx amounts of charges without eyewitnesses or cameras and whatnot. Its not like leaving a fingerprint in a "public" area makes you a criminal and empty cans are hardly illigal, nor the weapon of crime. Any ideas of what happend specifically?