I met CLEO in the parking lot at a COPE2 show in LA. We shot the shit over cigarettes outside the gallery and he began to tell me about coming up as a writer in one of the bigger crews in LA: TNT. The history & the lore was impressive to say the least, so I had him put me in contact with another writer from the squad (GIN or GINONE) and together we had a chat about the dynamite squad and going all-city in the Jungle. Check it out:
bombingscience: What are the GIN & CLEO origin stories? How did you guys get into graffiti?
GIN: I got into graffiti in 1981 when I stumbled across my older brothers high school yearbook from the year 1974′ inside this yearbook I was introduced to LA Gang writing from the 1970’s. Trying to mimic and copy the handstyles I was exposed to in this book I began to write on paper and then onto walls surrounding the building area where I lived. In 1982′ while hanging out with my older brother I witnessed firsthand my brother getting down on a wall with red spray-paint. After my brother finished hitting up his gang roll call on the wall I later returned and sprayed another side wall. The year was 1982 1 mile from the Los Angeles Convention Center in the area known as Pico-Union. Although my writing activity was not hip hop influenced at this time this was the beginning of my street artist history.
CLEO: I started hitting the streets in 1987. I would walk to school every day and I would see early LA graff likes TNT, STN, TAC & other old school writers. My early influences were GIN, SAX TNT, also I would see TELER & SKETCH STN pieces in my neighborhood but the person who got me into graffiti was SHAM OTR LOD. SHAM and I would meet up to walk to school and SHAM would catch spots along the way, I would be his look out, soon after I got tired of being his look out and I started writing my own name. At the time I was writing ZINC, not the OG ZINC which later I found out was another writer.
bombingscience: How did the TNT crew get started?
CLEO: TNT started in 1986 at John Adams Jr. High with GIN, GEE69 METRO, TONEE & ZOONIE and later progressed into a larger size crew. We had writers in L.A., East LA, Valley and South Central.
GIN: Flash forward to 1985′ I was writing “Gin2001” with my partner in crime “Gee69!” we were not part of any writing crew but we wanted to start one. 1986 was the year the “Dynamite Team” or TNT was formed at John Adams Jr. High School in the area known as Central- City later changed to South-Central. The original crew members were schoolmates which consisted of “Gin2001”, “Gee69!”, “Metro”, “Zoonie”, “Tone”. “Gin2001” later changed to “Gin” was the founder along with my writing partner “Gee69!”.
bombingscience: When did you start getting up as a crew?
GIN: We started getting up as a crew “TNT” in the year 1986.
CLEO: In the early years TNT was hit by GIN, METRO, REF, LIST, ONIC, COPE, SAX, EVOKE and many more. I got into the TNT in 1989, I met COPE by a mutual friend and was introduced to him. COPE later touched base with GIN to get me in the TEAM but GIN & COPE asked me to change my name. Back in the days if your name was the same or similar it was not a good idea, you can have beef.
bombingscience: who were some of the other big heavy hitters in TNT?
GIN: Heavy hitters would have to be “Duce” who continued on onto successfully doing production pieces and artist for hire commissions. “Hael” also went on to become a member of MSK – Seventh Letter Crew is still rocking the walls.
CLEO: One person when I was younger I saw up a lot was SAX TNT… Like I said I would be on the busses a lot and I would see his name up a lot. I was like who is this guy?? Then one day I was waiting for my bus, he got off on the same line and as soon as he got off, he took out his black dripper and hit up SAX on the window panel … I was like damn!!! He killed busses.
bombingscience: did you guys bomb or piece more?
CLEO: Catching spots of course! But now a days for me is dropping some good pieces take my time on it..
GIN: We did more bombing in the beginning of the crews formation. Later we began doing pieces when walls could be found. We also did color pieces on walls that were not permitted.
bombingscience: any highlight reel spots with memorable pieces you remember getting?
CLEO: As to pieces I would say the one with DRUE TNT USC at the Valley tracks.. I did my name then DRUE did a character with his hand coming out holding up a USC.. USC is another crew who a few of us TNT’s are from as well. The colors we used came out good.
bombingscience: What part of LA did you guys start out in?
GIN: We began bombing Central-City, Downtown Los Angeles, East Los Angeles, Lincoln Heights.
CLEO: To get around the city on your 2 feet or skateboard I would use the RTD transit system which was a very easy to get around town… The bus passes at the time had stickers for the month and could be duplicated by air brushing the month. In high school Sham & I would purposely missed the bus to school and take the RTD from LA to the Valley. We hit every bus along the way. We met lots of dope writers along the way.
bombingscience: Where were some of the first areas in LA TNT expanded into next?
CLEO: I lived in Koreatown which is about 10 mins from Downtown LA, I was bussed to school from LA to the Valley 89-92. After 1992 my family moved to the San Gabriel Valley, which is about 25 mins from DTLA. I continued to write after and had my own TNT members as well..
GIN: As our crew grew with more members we expanded all over Los Angeles counties West, North, East….
bombingscience: Were there any rival crews you encountered in the early days?
GIN: Rival crews we encountered were few and the crews that we did encounter are no longer active.
bombingscience: On the individual level, what were some of your best & worst moments writing?
CLEO: In the early 90’s graffiti artists were more intimidated by local gangs.. We would get guns pulled out on us and claim we were part of rival gang or just to mess with us. I was never a part of gangs but lived deep inside the hood. I stuck to graffiti and skateboarding which were my escape from that life.
Best moments tho…seeing my name roll by on busses was a great feeling. Also there was a time we were on the bus going to school on the 101 and ONOO MCA and myself caught the side walls…
GIN: The most intense time I had as a writer was in 1989. We went on a bombing mission 25 miles outside of the city of Los Angeles and ended up in Carson, CA were were bombing on the freeway doing block letters “GN” Gin “MR” Miner “OC” Onic we ended up getting chased by patrol cars, k-9 and helicopters. “Miner” WCA got away after a good chase. We were let go afterwards at around 130am with a warning never to return to the city of Carson, CA again. My belief is that Carson, CA did not have a heavy graffiti problem at this time and we were not worth the trouble writing up reports especially after “Miner” helped us out by getting away.
bombingscience: damn. And your best moment?
GIN: Best time as a writer would have to be when I was with a group of about 10 writers and we had gone to Downtown LA to write on some buses and almost every other bus that rolled up or rolled past I was already up on. A smile came across my face as I saw the look on the other writers faces at the amazement of seeing me up on so many buses…At that moment is when I knew I was “up” as a writer.
bombingscience: Have either or you, or anyone else in TNT gone international with the crew? Or do y’all just hold LA down?
GIN: Duce, Moz, Skerp, Hael have all gone international hitting up Mexico and other destinations.
CLEO: I would say HAEL TNT OTR MSK AL would be about the only one that has continued to push throughout the country and as well overseas. HEAVY HITTER.! MOZZER TNT GAW also has gone around too.
bombingscience: Any international TNT sets pop up out of that?
CLEO: No
GIN: Nah, no international sets.
bombingscience: So with the culture constantly evolving, there’s a lot of miles between where y’all started and where we are today. How do you guys feel about street art? Is street art culture noticeably different from graffiti culture? Is there any animosity towards the other or is it all chill?
GIN: Touchy subject. I like to see street art in any form. Like any artform that is trying to make a name for itself legally or writers who are trying to go legal to gain legitimacy in the art world. That’s cool if artists want to expand there art form I have a problem when they try to always try to use illegal graffiti as a scapegoat for their own stalled careers by waiting for the art establishment to come to them for a job or a career path. Street graffiti is not the problem it will always be around long after the piecing yards are gone and legal walls are long gone the writers will always be here to continue on. We are here having fun…”fame” eventually comes when you are not looking for it….especially if you are doing something you love to do.
CLEO: I have no beefs with so called street artists. Street artists are doing their own thing by beautifying the city, whether is characters, abstract pieces etc. Straight up graffiti is bombing, throwups and catching spots which is more raw and real graff. But it’s all good..
bombingscience: At the end of the day, going from your own history and experience, what is your graffiti philosophy?
CLEO: I would say if you like graffiti and do it, stay true to the game. Start up by putting in your work in the streets then progressing. Everyone gets older and have priorities that they have to take care of. Give respect to get respect. Do your thing.
GIN: My graffiti philosophy has always been to try not to go over anyone…and to just have fun doing graffiti whether illegal or legal. Once in becomes a job, task, and not fun anymore then….the end.
bombingscience: Last question: do y’all still get up?
CLEO: YES
GIN: Always.
GIN GEE69 GINGER METRO TOENE AKREM ALERT ARE ARP9 ARISE BASIK BRAK BRAZE CANE CEE CLEO CONE COPE CRIER DCREAS DECER DEED DERECT DESASTER DESHO DEW DFEAT DIES DOSE DRUE DUCE DYNAZ ELP ENTER EVEN EXCEL EVOKE EVONONE FABE FUSE FUSION GAME GANE HAEL HATE HERT JAEL JIMER JOE JOUSE JUNES KAE KAOS KISER KOST KRAZE KUDDLES KUE “R.I.P.” KWITE LACE LENK LIKE LIST LOER MAJER MAKE MOST MOZ MYCER MYER ERNAKIA ODIE ONIC ORAL PAGE PAST PEACE PERCO PERSON POSES PRE PUSH PYER RANK REAR RECON REF REMO REK “R.I.P.” RESCUE REVE ROES RUBIK SAX SCAB SEEX SEGA SELECT SEON SERK SESTO SHAKER SICER SIEGE SIGHT SIKE SILK SINK SIREN SISK SKEM SKERP SNEES SOEC SONER SOYK SPARE SPELL SPREW STAG STER STERK SUDEN SURE SYKER TECE TEME OG THEME TISTIK TONE TRAGIC TRAME TREM TRIK TRON “R.I.P.” TRYOM UNOE VOE WASTE WEAR WEE “R.I.P” WHESM ZEM ZOOM ZOONIE
peace
You can see more of CLEO & GIN’S work on Instagram
and you can follow me on IG
