Hi Pyro thanks for taking the time to do this interview, In your bio you did with us you mentioned you’ve been writing for 38 years! Which is insane I don’t run into too many people who would still be doing it after all these years, how did you get your start and how do you think it has changed since you first started? IS there anyone you’ve know since the beginning that you still tag with?
Hi! Thanks for the interest! Yes, I have been writing for 38 years, seems like more than a few lifetimes ago. I started writing in Los Angeles, 1982. When I first started writing there was very little, pretty much no influence from NYC. “Tagging” or “Writing” we’re unheard of terms in LA. The major influences was the various neighborhood gang graffiti, and at that moment in time the anarchistic punk rock graffiti. These were my initial influences. In LA the ‘block letter’ and squared off stylized writing of neighborhood veteranos was king, but they were limited in territory. Bounded by the borders of their particular varrio, they rarely were seen outside that area. Each neighborhood had amazing writers, each with a distinct style. The thing was, this was all gang related, the neighborhood came first. I started by emulating that which was so prevalent across the entire City of Angels landscape. At the time I was deep in the emergence of Punk Rock, so I began writing anti government, anti police slogans and adopted a few different monikers before settling on Pyro. At that time period punk rock and gangs became intertwined, so I was also putting up my neighborhood ‘club’ while simultaneously writing various slogans and a moniker. Then around 1982 I went to NYC with my parents and got to witness New York style graffiti firsthand. I saw the insides, the whole cars, the bright vibrant colors, the elaborate wild styles. I saw the Lees, the Seens…The Godfather’s up close and personal. I wasn’t sure what it was but I knew I loved it, it was nothing like the neighborhood hang graffiti I was used to in LA. Upon returning I quickly tried to emulate that which I saw in NY and combine it with what I was familiar with in LA, a combination of the two…colorful gang block letters. It wasn’t until 1983 while tripping on acid in the Hollywood Hills did I come up with the name PYRO. Just prior to that I had been writing Chino (being half Chinese), Weasel, and El Lighter…well one night while tripping I held a lighter in my hand. I was always the kid with matches or a lighter setting leaves on fire, lighting off fireworks etc. So there I was playing with this lighter, tripping on the flame and I read the brand name…Pyro brand lighters. A light bulb went off and that was the birth of Pyro. As time went on I gradually started becoming more and more interested in the artistic aspect of writing graffiti, don’t get me wrong, I love to vandalize shit but the ability to create something beautiful from a basic letter structure, larger than life and in everyone’s face was the ultimate rush for me. Over the years graffiti has changed and morphed so drastically. When I first started there was only a handful of people doing non-gang/NY style graffiti in Los Angeles. Everyone was pioneering. There was no internet, no way to see pieces except to physically travel there, or on the rare occasion know someone in New York who would send you pics every now and then. Everyone in LA drew from their surroundings and their life experiences, so everyone had their own style and there was an endless urban landscape that was deep in the grips of gang wars that was ripe for the bombing, as long as you were willing to be able to traverse gang territory and risk getting shot at (which has happened on multiple occasions-but those are different stories) Like. I said there have been multiple stages in the graffiti world development, especially in Los Angeles. The 80s were a free for all. All the early development and initial foundations of what was to become was laid out then. There was plenty of elbow room. We developed our own language, our own code, our developed our own tools (before ‘mops’ or ‘drippers’ we used to make what were called ‘roll-ons’. These were basically a roll on deodorant tube with the ball removed and emptied. We would tear a strip of chalk board eraser to create a felt tip, fill with Flo-Master or Marsh ink and boom – the fattest, drippiest markers known to young vandals. There was tons of ingenuity in what and how to go bigger, farther, brighter, bolder. There was the ‘tag bang’ period where crews became more gang oriented and gangs included more taggers. The post-LA riot period saw a different more art driven aspect where the the culture began producing art as opposed to straight illegal bombing and started to become accepted among the masses. Now you have graffiti in galleries. Writers getting paid. Corporations embracing the art form, and it’s direct younger cousin street art. The world has changed and graffiti has changed with it, the initial raw ‘old school – doing it for the love of it while no one else knew about it‘ time is long gone and was a very special time period…but the basic fundamentals will always be there…the desire to get up.
Being a tattoo artist by day and a graffiti artist by night is like having two full time jobs I would imagine. How do you balance between the two? With the wide use of the internet we are seeing artists making a livving doing graffiti, have you ever thought of going that route with your work? I mean selling canvas originals..etc. or do you think of graffiti as something that isnt about making money?
My love of tattooing runs deep, as much as I love graffiti. It’s raw and the ultimate compliment is when someone wants your work permanently on their body, there is no higher compliment. Making money from graff is fine and all, but I didn’t start writing on walls to make money. The original passion is to get up and that remains the same for me. That’s not to say I don’t sell canvases or do gallery shows here and there, but it isn’t my main focal point. I’ve never felt right in the gallery scene, I’d rather be in some dingy yard sweating my ass off. That’s just how I am. Many of my friends are accomplished artists and travel the world with their art, and that’s wonderful, I’m super happy for them. I’ve always been more behind the scenes, or one on one type of person, so to me making money tattooing in ting with a handful of friends suits me fine.
My love of tattooing runs deep, as much as I love graffiti. It’s raw and the ultimate compliment is when someone wants your work permanently on their body, there is no higher compliment. Making money from graff is fine and all, but I didn’t start writing on walls to make money. The original passion is to get up and that remains the same for me. That’s not to say I don’t sell canvases or do gallery shows here and there, but it isn’t my main focal point. I’ve never felt right in the gallery scene, I’d rather be in some dingy yard sweating my ass off. That’s just how I am. Many of my friends are accomplished artists and travel the world with their art, and that’s wonderful, I’m super happy for them. I’ve always been more behind the scenes, or one on one type of person, so to me making money tattooing in ting with a handful of friends suits me fine.
How long have you lived in Hawaii and how different do you think the graffiti and culture is from where you grew up in L.A.?
I’ve only recently moved to Hawaii, about 2 years now. I still travel back to Los Angeles quite frequently, but home base is now Oahu. The scene here is vastly different. It’s a lot smaller and everyone knows everyone. There are limited spaces to paint. There are no legal spots per se, but there are a lot of hidden gems. I’ve been really into finding abandoned military structures deep in the jungle and painting them. LA with is endless concrete jungle is and always will be home. It’s where I came up and where I know everyone. There’s a lot of things in LA that have changed as far as graffiti goes. Street art and gallery shows have taken on a life of its own, and at times it seems that’s what my generation of writer are doing now. That’s great for them, but it’s not what I am into, like I said I’m still into getting up, rather than being seen at the art show. So, with all that in mind, moving to Hawaii has been great. There isn’t so much of a “scene” here, and the anonymity has been nice. The heads I have met and painted with are about the art and not about the fame. They’re about catching spots with burners and not about who knows who.
You mention in your bio, that you have traveled all over the world. Can you give some examples of where you have been and do you have any crazy travel stories to share? What is your favorite place to visit?
I’ve been fortunate enough to have traveled the world because of my skill set. I’ve tattooed and subsequently painted everywhere I’ve traveled. I adore Europe, in all honesty, when I left Los Angeles it was between Budapest and Hawai’i. The warm weather and year-round girls in bikini spots won. If I were to choose a favorite place it would definitely be Budapest. I’ve spent many months there and I love the people and the overall feel of the city It reminds me of old LA, it’s still dirty and has an edge to it, and on that I thrive. If I were to choose a favorite place I’ve traveled to, definitely there. I also love Australia. Great scene down there. I haven’t been there in a long time and I’m long overdue.
You make a mention of the Netflix documentary L.A. originals and the two artists the doc is based off of: @misterctoons and @estevanoriol in one of your posts mentioning how you came up with these two guys. I’m just curious if you can tell us a little bit about what it has been like to watch two of your close friends rise to fame like that? What did you think of the documentary?
Watching those two guys grow into what they are now has been amazing. I saw it in Cartoon (then known as Flame) since we were kids. He always had something about him that you could just tell he was going to go big. His style has always been ahead of the curve. He used to come to my house in Hollywood to draw out t-shirt designs because it was close to the client. He was an exceptional writer and all-around artist that always had new ideas and new ways of marketing himself and his art. When I first met Estevan he was still Steve O, he wasn’t Estevan yet. There was a time period Estevan was getting into the music industry, at that same time I was working in music as well. We would run into each other at festivals across the nation, him working for one band me working for another. Looking back now, seeing where we were, he was literally the only person with a camera, and he was able to document everything at a time when everyone (hip hop/graffiti/tattooing/skateboarding/punk rock became so mainstream) was just starting to come up. Needless to say, I am so extremely proud of both of them, but as time goes on, and people become successful and move through life, time gets short and we see less of each other. I still see both of them and it’s always a good time running into them.
One of the other posts I saw was you mentioning a little bit about your own redemption story of dealing with drugs among other issues and rising about them to become the artist you are today. You say every year you tell this story to remind yourself how much better life is now, do you think that success in some ways can get in your own way? Like success, once attained is easily taken for granted and can be lost because of this?
Success can be a double-edged sword. I had my demons long ago. I’ve fought them for many years before coming to terms with them. I see many artists now that get famous and have tons of money thrown at them, and as a result, they party a lot. Many have problems they aren’t willing to face, but will eventually have to. Everyone does in their own time. I was one of the lucky ones, I went through drug addiction which led to my being homeless for 5 years. I literally slept on the side of a freeway for that time period. I was a lost cause, or so everyone thought. By far coming back from that was the hardest thing I have ever done, but it proved to me who I am and what I am made of. It showed me that no matter what happens I can overcome it. Since getting my shit together I have worked diligently to get back to where I thought I should be…and as a result I have enjoyed life. I see people who I came up with who didn’t have these setbacks and their successes and I wanted that. It drove me me to be better, do better. Moving to Hawaii has all been a part of that plan. It has been a dream of mince for decades, because it has always felt like home here, and that was part of the decision for me…getting clean meant the ability to chase those dreams, no matter where they take me. It doesn’t mean that life is easy, it means life if available.
What kind of music do you listen to when you paint? Who are you favorite hip hop artists that you think got overlooked or faded too fast?
I listen to such a wide range in music, it actually shocks some people. I grew up on punk rock. Before hip hop, in the early 80s I was all in the Los Angeles punk rock scene, back when bands like Black Flag and Bad religion were just starting out. That’s is and always will be my go to, to me it’s a lifestyle and way of thinking, not just music. Since I worked in the music industry for years I was able to see and work with lots of new bands. I like a wide range of musical styles, hip hop, punk rock, alternative, goth. I’ve always loved anything that came out of LA, cause shit….they rep my city and we as Angelico’s are proud of that, especially those of us born and raised there long before it was popular. As far as hip hop artists, right now I’m kinda stuck on Hilltop Hoods out of Australia.
For people trying to go down the same road as you what advice do you have for them? Do you have any advice for artists specifically wanting to travel or relocate to another place such as Hawaii?
Follow your dreams no matter how difficult it may seem. Moving to an entirely new city isn’t easy and there will always be forces and reasons for you not to move, but the real power comes in actually doing it. That’s where the growth comes from. I suggest traveling extensively and feeling out various cities, countries. Now with the internet, it’s easy to meet people and have a network before you visit. Traveling opens your horizons. There so many of my friends who’ve never left the city they grew up in and as a result their views are limited. Traveling to foreign destinations helps one to infer stand the world and humanity as a whole. It gives you a different perspective. Hell, I don’t know if I will stay here in Hawaii forever, but I had to give it a try. When it’s time, if its time, I may choose a new destination and begin to work towards that. Life is short, we only have this one lifetime…fill it with as much adventure and stories as you can.
Lastly you mention in another post how you has the police show up in 1986/87 to your parent’s house, suspicious of how many “pyro” tags there were in their jurisdiction. You didnt go that much into it but I feel like there is a cool story here, do you mind sharing?
Hahaha. Back in 86-87 was the heyday for me and my crew. We crushed Los Angeles. Back then we walked everywhere or took public transportation, not o mention every night was another mission to a new area to bomb. Weekend were spent painting yards. It was a fucking free for all. As a result the local law enforcement agencies took note of graffiti in areas where graffiti wasn’t expected. I pretty much had destroyed everything in my local neighborhood and somewhow some way the local sheriffs got my name (probably from my high school…where we were known but they could never catch)Yeah, well one day while I was out dining who knows what, the sheriffs showed up at my parents house and started asking questions. My parents knew what was up, hell I had destroyed my room “testing out my paint” … but they played dumb and denied knowing anything. (Thanks Mom!) After I found out I immediately Started writing a host of different names to throw them off. I guess it worked because I never heard from them again. Hahaha
Any shout outs you would like to give? where can people follow you?
People can follow me on Instagram @mike_pyro….that’s pretty much where everyone is at social media-wise. If you’re interested in old school graffiti from Los Angeles, follow my other page @earlylagraffitiwhere I showcase Los Angeles graffiti photos from the 1980s and early 90s. Shout out to my crews West Coast Artists (Los Angeles), All Caps Collective (Budapest) and The Seventh Letter
Interview by Wesley Edwards
